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IDProjectCategoryView StatusLast Update
0000137Cinelerra-GG[All Projects] Featurepublic2019-08-23 07:28
ReporterAndrea_PazAssigned To 
PrioritynormalSeverityminorReproducibilityalways
Status newResolutionopen 
Platform64 bitOSarch linux KDEOS Versionrolling
Product Version 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0000137: Managing mkv in CinGG
DescriptionCinGG has difficulty managing the mkv container (regardless of the inner codec). Loading times are 3 times longer than other containers and even editing on the timeline seems to weigh more on the PC, despite having used a loseless codec (ffv1) that should be lighter to process.
I took a 33s video (mp4, x264, 75MB) and rendered it in:
pro, ProRes, 1.2GB
mkv, ffv1, 1.5GB
Loading into the timeline ("replace current project") gave these results:

mp4 --> 3s
pro --> 3s
mkv --> 9s

I would like to know if other users have the same experience with mkv. Is there any way to optimize the processing of this format?
TagsHELP needed

Activities

Andrea_Paz

Andrea_Paz

2019-08-23 07:28

updater   ~0002031

I'll add some more data:
1- Using the video indicated by MatN: http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/4khdr/Passengers_Breakfast_4K.mkv
It is loaded into timeline in 8 sec. Playback is 17-19 Fps.
Rendering that file in mkv (ffv1) in CinGG I get: Load=18 sec; playback=19 Fps
It would appear that part of the problem is CinGG.
2- I read that mkv often has seek problems, even with external players. One solution is to use mkvtoolnix-cli to rebuild the file structure (muxing), after which it works well. I tried but nothing has changed.
Olaf

Olaf

2019-06-05 20:51

reporter   ~0001664

After you have compared the archive format FFV1 with the cut format ProRes extensively and Matroska does not cause any problems anymore the bug could be closed. Or what do you think?
Andrea_Paz

Andrea_Paz

2019-03-17 09:41

updater   ~0001230

Phyllis (and IgorBeg), thank you for all the tests you've done. Now we have different material to make a comparison.
IgorBeg

IgorBeg

2019-03-16 18:22

reporter   ~0001219

Andrea_Paz, sorry if I am writing here my tests about rendering time. (They are Off Topic)
The "WhatTimeIsIt_TestRendering_Preset.txt" is like in your (by Andrea_Paz) tests.
The "WhatTimeIsIt_TestRendering_a256k-v5000k.txt " is with Audio and Video bitrate respectively 256k and 5000k.

WhatTimeIsIt_TestRendering_Preset.txt (3,410 bytes)
Only for reference.

On my old Pc
- CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) X2 Dual-Core QL-62 2GHz
- RAM: 4GB
- OS: Linux UbuntuStudio 16.04 LTS 64bit (Xfce)

Cin-GG vers:
  cinelerra-5.1-ub16.04-20190228.x86_64-static
Project-->
  - Setting Format= 1080p @29.97fps 16/9 yuva420
  - video sources:  .mp4, 1080p, 29.97fps (variable)
  - Total time: 1 minute

123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345
         1         2         3         4         5         6         7
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Container| Audio         | Video         |Rendering | Size |Quality |CPU
         |  48kHz stereo |               |  took    | [MB] | Only4  |[%]
  ffmpeg |  (Preset)     |  (Preset)     |          |      | MyEyes |
---------+---------------+---------------+----------+------+--------+------
mp4     *|h264.mp4       |h264.mp4       |   40m49s | 30.8 | A      | 60
         |aac            |High           |          |      |        |
         |       125 kbps|      4109 kbps|          |      |        |
---------+---------------+---------------+----------+------+--------+------
pro     *|acc256k.pro    |med422p10.pro  |   18m00s |1000  | A      |100
         |aac            |yuv422p10      |          |      |        |
         |       249 kbps|    139528 kbps|          |      |        |
---------+---------------+---------------+----------+------+--------+------
mkv     *|acc256k.pro    |flac.mkv       |   20m47s |1000  | B      |100+
         |flac 24bit     |ffv1           |          |      |        |
         |               |    134545 kbps|          |      |        |
---------+---------------+---------------+----------+------+--------+------
youtube *|stereo.youtube |hd.youtube     |   34m58s | 10.6 | A-     | 60
         |opus           |vp9 (Profile 0)|          |      |        |
         |               |      1411 kbps|          |      |        |
---------+---------------+---------------+----------+------+--------+------
youtube *|stereo_with_   |hd_h264.youtube|   46m01s | 60.2 | A-     | 60
         |_h264.youtube  |h264 (High)    |          |      |        |
         |aac    373 kbps|      8021 kbps|          |      |        |
---------+---------------+---------------+----------+------+--------+------
mp4     *|faststart_h264.|faststart_h264.| 1h08m27s | 11.1 | A-     | 60
         |.mp4           |.mp4 h264(High)|          |      |        |
         |aac    125 kbps|      1477 kbps|          |      |        |
---------+---------------+---------------+----------+------+--------+------
dvd     *|dvd.dvd        |dvd.dvd        |   13m53s | 18.3 | B      | 20
         |ac3            |mpeg2video     |          |      |        |
         |       192 kbps|(Main)2436 kbps|          |      |        |
---------+---------------+---------------+----------+------+--------+------
webm    *|webm.webm      |vp9_1920x1080_ |   38m21s |  2.9 | C      | 60
         |vorbis         |_~fps.webm     |          |      |        |
         |               |vp9(P0)384 kbps|          |      |        |
---------+---------------+---------------+----------+------+--------+------


*Preset value by Cinelerra-GG & ffmpeg: default settings (preset);

- Quality (Only for my eyes) and CPU usage fields are subjective by me
  with "ffplay videofile.*" execute command.
WhatTimeIsIt_TestRendering_a256k-v5000k.txt (3,413 bytes)
Only for reference.

On my old Pc
- CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) X2 Dual-Core QL-62 2GHz
- RAM: 4GB
- OS: Linux UbuntuStudio 16.04 LTS 64bit (Xfce)

Cin-GG vers:
  cinelerra-5.1-ub16.04-20190228.x86_64-static
Project-->
  - Setting Format= 1080p @29.97fps 16/9 yuva420
  - video sources:  .mp4, 1080p, 29.97fps (variable)
  - Total time: 1 minute
  - Rendering: 
      - Bitrate: audio= 256k; video=5000k; pixels=yuv420p

123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345
         1         2         3         4         5         6         7
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Container| Audio         | Video         |Rendering | Size |Quality |CPU
         |  48kHz stereo |               |  took    | [MB] | Only4  |[%]
  ffmpeg |               |               |          |      | MyEyes |
---------+---------------+---------------+----------+------+--------+------
mov      |mov.mov        |mov.mov        |   13m44s | 39.2 | A-     | 20
         |aac            |mpeg4 (Simple) |          |      |        |
         |       249 kbps|      5217 kbps|          |      |        |
---------+---------------+---------------+----------+------+--------+------
qt       |mp4.qt         |mp4.qt         |   13m38s | 39.2 | A-     | 20
         |aac            |mpeg4 (Simple) |          |      |        |
         |       249 kbps|      5217 kbps|          |      |        |
---------+---------------+---------------+----------+------+--------+------
ogg      |vorbis.ogg     |theora.ogg     |   19m00s | 37.1 | A-     | 30
         |vorbis         |theora         |          |      |        |
         |       256 kbps|      4945 kbps|          |      |        |
---------+---------------+---------------+----------+------+--------+------
youtube  |stereo_with_   |hd_h264.youtube|   38m48s | 30.6 | A      | 80
         |_h264.youtube  |h264 (High)    |          |      |        |
         |aac    249 kbps|      4074 kbps|          |      |        |
---------+---------------+---------------+----------+------+--------+------
mp4      |h264.mp4       |h264.mp4       |   39m11s | 30.6 | A      | 80
         |aac            |h264 (High)    |          |      |        |
         |       249 kbps|      4071 kbps|          |      |        |
---------+---------------+---------------+----------+------+--------+------
dvd      |dvd.dvd        |dvd.dvd        |   13m50s | 40.0 | A-     | 20
         |ac3            |mpeg2video     |          |      |        |
         |       256 kbps|(High)5328 kbps|          |      |        |
---------+---------------+---------------+----------+------+--------+------
webm     |webm.webm      |webm.webm      | 1h05m14s | 35.1 | A-     | 90
         |vorbis         |vp9 (Profile 0)|          |      |        |
         |               |      4683 kbps|          |      |        |
---------+---------------+---------------+----------+------+--------+------
webm     |vorbis.webm    |vp9_1920x1080_ |   38m38s | 26.2 | A-     | 90
         |vorbis         |_~fps.webm     |          |      |        |
         |               |vp9(P0)3497kbps|          |      |        |
---------+---------------+---------------+----------+------+--------+------

- Quality (Only for my eyes) and CPU usage fields are subjective by me
  with "ffplay videofile.*" execute command.
PhyllisSmith

PhyllisSmith

2019-03-10 18:27

manager   ~0001165

My thanks to Andrea for the results and IgorB for providing the test. I am going to try to do the same tests and compare the results in StupidTest.txt to see what I get on a Ryzen AMD laptop.
IgorBeg

IgorBeg

2019-03-10 14:53

reporter   ~0001156

Wow!
Andrea_Paz, thank you so much for your tests. Your tests say very much on a powerful PC like your.
Unfortunately I can not test "framerate achieved" in full resolution. My PC says to me: "Hey! I am only a dualcore-twoThread, and not i3-i5-i7 !?".
But with Proxy enabled (scale: 1/4, Scaler=disabled) the Color3way effect is really a resource eater. In the next days I will do more tests about.
I will try to reproduce your rendering tests on my PC. Thanks.

(yesterday evening I have done .mov, .qt, .ogg)
Andrea_Paz

Andrea_Paz

2019-03-10 14:22

updater   ~0001153

I did some quick tests with the project provided by IgorBeg (thank you, I should have done it; I apologize).

StupidTest.txt (1,322 bytes)
My system: Notebook Intel i7 2720QM 2.2MHz; Nvidia gtx460M; 12GB RAM; SSD.
Arch Linux KDE

project (by IgorBeg): WathTimeIsIt.xml

Playback driver:    video:      Cut:        Transition:     Zoom:    Title: 

X11-OpenGL          9.5-9.7     9.2-9.5     7.5             6        12 fps

X11 Direct          9.8-10      9.8         8               6        6  fps

No Color3Way        25          23          14              10       13 fps


NOTE:

1- Using or not using "Play every frame" only changes by 1 - 3 fps.
2- When you use the zoom you have a fall of fps.
3- Switching between edits only loses fractions of fps.
4- Transitions make you lose 1 - 2 fps.
5- Heavy plugins like Color 3 Way cause the fall of fps.


Project render (without Color 3 Way):

1) ffmpeg mp4 (preset audio/video: h264.mp4) --> 2'41" (11.106 fps) 29MB
    
    Loading the render in CinGG --> 2.5 sec; playback --> 30 fps. Hard Cut + Transition --> 30 sec
    
    
    
2) ffmpeg pro (preset: acc256k.pro; med422p10.pro) --> 2'14" (13.367 fps) 975MB
    
    Loading the render in CinGG --> 3 sec; playback --> 30 fps. Hard Cut + Transition --> 30 sec
    
    
    
3) ffmpeg mkv (preset: flac.mkv; ffv1.mkv) --> 2'16" (13.162 fps) 926MB
    
    Loading the render in CinGG --> 9 sec; playback --> 30 fps. Hard Cut + Transition --> 30 sec
StupidTest.txt (1,322 bytes)
IgorBeg

IgorBeg

2019-03-09 10:03

reporter   ~0001127

I have done a "stupid" Project (total time= 1 minute) to make a few of tests. So if we have a common base it can be more useful, I think.
My goal was for rendering time but it may be useful also for your test.
In my "stupid" project there are transitions, autos, and what You and I use in editing video (or at least I hope). So you can say me:
- "in transition dissolve how many fps have you?"
- "try to disable Color3way effect and test again, please"...

Link to compressed file at
https://www.dropbox.com/s/o9i44fnszrt6wjq/WhatTimeIsIt.tar.gz?dl=0
(datafilehost.com have any problem)

IgorBeg
Andrea_Paz

Andrea_Paz

2019-02-28 19:04

updater   ~0001042

The first good news is that the slowdown problems are no longer there. Between GG's work on deadlocks and my reinstalling arch and then CinGG, I don't now have obvious and annoying drops. In addition, not even with "Play every frame" checked I find slowdowns. In practice, I went back to the days when I hadn't noticed any problems.
The second least good news is that mkvs always show problems. I lined up edit mp4, pro, mkv and png images, putting transitions between them and applying the Videoscope to the entire track. Then I played back the shots watching the "" in Preferences-->playbackA*. The fps are always around 30 except in edit mkv where they drop to 22 - 24 fps, sometimes even 19 fps.
I've used very big videos, so I can't load them to make them available, but I'll try to make some minimal renderings so that everyone can use the EDL for their tests. Be patient IgorBeg, lately I have had many messes with Arch Linux.
IgorBeg

IgorBeg

2019-02-24 15:17

reporter   ~0001002

@MatN
thanks for your feedback. I am waiting for an idea by @Andrea_Paz (author of the request). I could make a stupid but reasonable Project with three my videos (for license problem?) with two or three effects and then upload. So everyone can download it, make rendering with parameters Andrea_Paz says (or other users say) to evaluate the differences. If someone already has a very short Project with source video files to share, it would be better.
MatN

MatN

2019-02-23 20:39

reporter   ~0000989

@IgorBeg, that table with the rendering is useful information.
Maybe a updated list can be compiled with the most desired inputs and outputs and put in an appendix of the manual?
IgorBeg

IgorBeg

2019-02-22 10:52

reporter   ~0000966

Maybe, we could make comparative tests with the same Project and Source files (only 30 seconds or less). So the differences would be our machine and Operative System, but more useful.
You could write the parameters for different rendering: codec (not more of 10), format, audio bitrate, video bitrate and so on.
Then we can write a table with: Machine x core, OS-xyz, loading time and rendering time for codec xyz.
It could be useful to see the difference between more Linux distribution (Arch, Ubuntu, Mint, Suse, ...)
Only an idea, of course.

Time ago, at the beginning of my Adventure with Cinelerra-GG, I have done this Rendering tests.

TestRendering.txt (1,028 bytes)
Only for reference.

On my old Pc (cpu 1core), editing HD (720p), 24fps, yuva420p, 
with 5 video tracks (video sources:  .mp4, 720p, 29.97fps) and 
2 audio tracks (stereo).

Render 1 minute of editing (bit rate: audio= 384k; video=5000k):
(rendering all to 5000k, excluding MP4-fastart that 
was forced to an other value).

Type of Render      | Rendering | Size  | Subjective Quality
                    |  took     | [MB]  | (only for my eyes)
----------------------------------------|-------------------
.youtube (h264)     | 28m34s    | 40.5  | A  (Good)
.mp4                | 28m53s    | 40.5  | A+
.mp4 (faststart)    | 44m00s    |  9.8 *| B--
.mp4 (pass1of2_h264)| 11m39s    | 40.4  | B  (less Good)
.mov                |  6m34s    | 40.6  | A
.qt                 |  6m32s    | 40.6  | A
.ogg (TheoraVorbis) |  8m29s    | 39.4  | A
.dvd (mpeg)         |  6m31s    | 41.3  | A+

Cin-gg vers:
cinelerra-5.1-mint18.2-10180531.x86_64-static

* EyeFrame Converter says: Video Bit Rate changed to 1900k
TestRendering.txt (1,028 bytes)
PhyllisSmith

PhyllisSmith

2019-02-21 23:46

manager   ~0000965

From a user viewpoint I see similar bad results when rendering. Batch rendering took about 4 times longer on a multi-core system.
 
MP4 Big Buck Bunny 1920x1080 CPU = 9:30 FPS = 66.814
MKV Big Buck Bunny 1920x1080 CPU = 35:29 FPS = 17.915

MP4 720 Cartoon CPU = 0:13 FPS = 140.804
MKV 720 Cartoon CPU = 1:03 FPS = 30.488

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
2019-02-16 20:44 Andrea_Paz New Issue
2019-02-16 20:44 Andrea_Paz Tag Attached: HELP needed
2019-02-21 23:46 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0000965
2019-02-22 10:52 IgorBeg File Added: TestRendering.txt
2019-02-22 10:52 IgorBeg Note Added: 0000966
2019-02-23 20:39 MatN Note Added: 0000989
2019-02-24 15:17 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001002
2019-02-28 19:04 Andrea_Paz Note Added: 0001042
2019-03-09 10:03 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001127
2019-03-10 14:22 Andrea_Paz File Added: StupidTest.txt
2019-03-10 14:22 Andrea_Paz Note Added: 0001153
2019-03-10 14:53 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001156
2019-03-10 18:27 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0001165
2019-03-16 18:22 IgorBeg File Added: WhatTimeIsIt_TestRendering_Preset.txt
2019-03-16 18:22 IgorBeg File Added: WhatTimeIsIt_TestRendering_a256k-v5000k.txt
2019-03-16 18:22 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001219
2019-03-17 09:41 Andrea_Paz Note Added: 0001230
2019-06-05 20:51 Olaf Note Added: 0001664
2019-08-23 07:28 Andrea_Paz Note Added: 0002031