Phyllis uses Fedora, we will hear if she can reproduce the crash.
However, I use Arch Linux (Rolling Release) so my test is not very reliable. Let's hear other opinions as well...
With the Forum we often have log problems; but with MantisBT, it is strange. It had disconnection problems after a short time, but it should be fixed now. Let's hear what @Phyllis and @Sam who are in charge of the server have to say.

Since you could not reproduce the crash, I wanted to add a note, that it may be Fedora specific, my wife is running Fedora 37 as well and the crash happens for her as too.

https://cinelerra-gg.org/bugtracker/view.php?id=632

"I have a nicely reproducible coredump when hitting the "Fit all autos to display" button in my project."

We need the exact set of steps so we can reproduce and hopefully fix?

thank you for the links, will read up on it, I think I did try the original Broadcast2000 *long* time ago, but back then I had access to the Media100, so you can imagine that I did not do well with Broadcast2000 which was odd to use and looked totally ugly on TclTk :)

Posted by: @andreapaz

A curiosity; how did you meet CinGG?

Oh that is quite easy to answer, there aren't so many non proprietary open source NLE options on Linux, if you cross off the most simple and basic ones, then the list shrinks to just a few. For a while I was getting by with a combination of Natron and Kdenlive, for instance, I was editing material for a YouTube short, since its a narrow vertical view I had to crop the edges, but then also pan around to follow the action in the video which would otherwise leave the view area. In Kdenlive I did not manage to do both... I could either pan or crop; in theory both effects were supported on top of the other, but I could not achieve the result I wanted. So I ended up rendering the crop + pan part in Natron and then importing it into Kdenlive to combine with other tracks/audio effects.

CinGG could do it, yes, it was a struggle and I was not able to figure it out just by intuitive trial and error, but it cold do it. Same goes for the picture in picture, zoomed, cropped and with an added border, I think that was my first thread here on the forms. Again, I was not able to figure it out on my own, but CinGG could do it.

Posted by: @andreapaz

A word of warning: the forum is mostly frequented by casual users and little by the "old" community. If you have questions and problems I encourage you to use the mailing-list and Bug Tracker, which are the center of the discussions we have.

Oh OK, then I should probably subscribe. I was anyway going to look at the bugtracker since I have a nicely reproducible coredump when hitting the "Fit all autos to display" button in my project.

Posted by: @dejay

I happen to like the GUI, it's a darn sight more flexible and easier to use than any others I've tried.

My personal struggle is lesser the UI itself, although I would have preferred a single window, but rather how certain things behave - in most cases unexpectedly for someone who is used to other NLEs. The UI as such isn't bad, actually the UI is similar to what one would expect, but the way you have to do things is something I need to get used to.

To this we must add an unwelcome GUI (old style and separate windows)

I happen to like the GUI, it's a darn sight more flexible and easier to use than any others I've tried.

A good reference to learn about the history of CinGG is here:
http://cinelerra-cv.wikidot.com/main:about
The wikipedia page is also done very well:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinelerra
One can also see its troubled history of forks and divisions. This partly explains being able to bring together only a small community. To this we must add an unwelcome GUI (old style and separate windows) and an anti-intuitive workflow. Phyllis manages the whole project, but there are 2 or 3 developers left.


A curiosity; how did you meet CinGG?
A word of warning: the forum is mostly frequented by casual users and little by the "old" community. If you have questions and problems I encourage you to use the mailing-list and Bug Tracker, which are the center of the discussions we have.

I am actually surprised about the CinGG community being small as there is no other feature-wise comparable NLE under Linux. Then again, probably most folks who do serious editing are on Mac anyway and other Linux alternatives are all good enough for cutting the occasional holiday video...

I did not know about CinGG history and was very sorry to read about what happened, so is Phyllis developing alone now? It's a lot of code to maintain...

You are right about CinGG being the most complete and feature rich NLE on Linux, at least that's what my personal research has shown. Blender has potential, but it has a different focus, Natron is great for special effects but it's not an NLE. Others, like Kdenlive, have a nice workflow and are intuitive to use, but each time I had an "I would like to edit it like that" situation which was beyond simple family video requirements - they failed due to various limitations.

Anyhoo, thanks to everyone who is working on the project, I hope that the user base is still large enough to motivate the developers to go on. I have been running a bigger open source project long time ago and I know how much work it actually is, so I really appreciate what you guys are doing here.

Kind regards,

Jin

Don't worry, all your points are correct (thanks also for the advice to put the link to Cut and Trim, I will do that as soon as possible).
The CinGG user community is very small and we got to know the developer Good Guy (and Phyllis) well. This has allowed us to compact and be supporters of the CinGG way of editing. I always told an anecdote that has stayed with me: I asked GG for a way to be able to draw on the canvas; he said he had no idea how to do it. However, a week later he brought out the Sketcher plugin that does just what I requested. So many other plugins and functions came out of from user requests. What a great coder (and persona) Good Guy was.
True, CinGG is unusual and counterintuitive, but it allows one to find and invent many ways (all manual...) to achieve a given result. It is also very feature rich. Perhaps the richest of the open programs for Linux, but I am not familiar with the other NLEs. Probably, now that my cognitive abilities are diminishing, I don't think I would be able to learn CinGG anymore.

Cut or Split in CinGG is different from other NLEs. CinGG has an internal timeline optimization that causes two adjacent frames to merge into a sequence, losing the cut. For more details see:

https://cinelerra-gg.org/download/CinelerraGG_Manual/Cut_Paste_Editing.html#SECTION007400400000000000000

oooh OK, the link you posted explains exactly what I was seeing. I guess what would have been helpful in the docs - a link from the Trimming section - this is where I tried to get the info on how to trim the edges, to the above link. It was not obvious that trimming depended on how something was being cut, so I would not have thought to look there myself.

CinGG works very differently from other NLEs (it was originally based on Avid Media Compositor, but has diversified a lot from that as well), so it needs to learn how to use it from scratch. That is why we are always trying to deepen and improve the manual more and more.

I noticed ;) I did hold back on saying that, but since you mentioned it - I have to be honest, Cinelerra is the most unintuitive NLE that I have ever used... I remember using Media100 many, many years back and the workflow was just so much smoother. So I do struggle a lot now, spending more time on figuring out how I can do basic things instead of spending it on the creative process. That being said - you guys are a great help on the forums and also the video tutorials from @igorbeg are very helpful - although not quite enough, it's really difficult to get started and I always seem to miss how to do the simplest things, which are often not part of any tutorial. It is also difficult to find answers to "why" certain things are happening and how to figure it out, at least I often feel searching for a needle in a haystack. In that sense, while the documentation is extensive and is a great reference, it does not always help someone who has just started. This thread is an example for that - technically the cutting and the trimming are both well documented, but I still could not figure it out without getting help :(

I assume that I'll struggle less once I have built up a certain level of knowledge, but it will surely be a fight to get there. The reason why I am staying on it is quite simple though: I did not find anything else on Linux that would be open source and capable of doing all the things that I wanted to do in my videos and I did look at a bunch of Linux NLEs.

Hope that was not too much of unsolicited feedback, I guess my experience is most likely similar to other users who were just getting started :)

Kind regards,

Jin