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capslock
(@capslock)
Active Member
Joined: 4 months ago
Posts: 6
05/01/2019 7:41 pm  

Just dropped in after a busy week and found this board which I think is a good idea.

48 years old and from Germany, I have used cinelerra for my very first video in 2009. Both overwhelmed about the features and confused by the handling, I gave kdenlive a try and used it until early 2018. Then I checked cinelerra again, found cinelerra-gg and again I was overwhelmed by the new features, e.g. hardware encoding on my old notebook. I just was happy with the handling of cinelerra - after 9 years with kdenlive I suddely saw the benefits and why something is done as it is - editing got much faster.

Now I am looking forward to produce my first cingg video for the masses (after doing some 8 vids for the family about my 3yo son). I will let you know when it is online. Some 8 vids have to be produced for the Motorsports Association of Lower Saxony in Germany. Tons of clips are waiting.

Thanks to all making the so called dinosaur cinelerra to be one of the most flexible modern open source NLEs. When I find the time, I can probably help with translations or answering questions here in the forum - I think it will grow as cinelerra-gg gets more and more known as kdenlive is struggeling with stability issues. I worked as a software developer for 15 years before I became a ScrumMaster 5 years ago.

All the best to you all and happy editing!  Achim 


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Sam
 Sam
(@sam)
Eminent Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 25
05/01/2019 8:14 pm  

Welcome Achim.

Very interesting. We are looking forward to your videos.


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andreapaz
(@andreapaz)
Trusted Member
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 69
06/01/2019 8:45 am  

Hello and welcome.
A curiosity on the part of an incompetent: what does ScrumMaster consist of?
I am also waiting for your videos 🙂


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capslock
(@capslock)
Active Member
Joined: 4 months ago
Posts: 6
07/01/2019 7:36 am  

A ScrumMaster is part of a team producing software. There are developers (responsible for delivering high quality software), a product owner (responsible that the product is successfull) and a ScrumMaster (responsible the processes (given and chosen) the team has to follow).

This post was modified 3 months ago by capslock

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WPfilmmaker2
(@wpfilmmaker2)
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Posts: 14
15/01/2019 2:13 pm  

I too, look forward to see your videos!

No flame intended: I heard kdenlive is not very stable how was using it for 9 years?

Since you know kdenlive very well, could you outline its advantages over cinelerra? Maybe they can be used as source for ideas of feature requests to improve cinelerra:)


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capslock
(@capslock)
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Joined: 4 months ago
Posts: 6
18/01/2019 11:42 am  

Yeah, good idea... Using kdenlive since version 0.5 made me a "save often person". After 2-3 edits I saved the project. That was fine as kdenlive used to stall less and less over the years. I think it was GPU acceleraton that brought me back to cinelerra. GPU acceleraton made kdenlive quite unstable again and in addition to that it was not predictable if (GPU) effects would work in the next release. So compatibility became an issue. For me as an Archlinux user working with kdenlive felt like playing a lottery.

Features that made kdenlive better than cinelerra-cv 9 years ago:
* kdenlive has been much more intuitively to use - as a long term user I have no idea what a beginner would say today, as the number of features increased significantly over the years.
* Resolve between clips with predictable and easy to edit results by applying a resolve transition between two overlaying tracks
* Video and stereo audio in one track by default - This reduced the number of tracks and reduced mistakes by unarming and arming tracks.
* The more modern design
* far better support of codecs and export formats (everything that ffmpeg supported)

Features I like in cinlerra-gg today:
* Excellent support of GPU rendering by using the render pipe - greatest feature in the world for me!
* Excellent support of codecs - build in ffmpeg presets or render pipe
* design improvements
* speed on startup and editing
* build in rendering engines are so fast (e.g. RGB for pipe export, flac or wav export)
* very stable GPU acceleration for preview
* excellent keyframe features, speed effect with keyframes (maybe I missed that in kdenlive...)
* usage with keyboard (was possible in kdenlive but I never used it, dunno why)
* not a single crash in 2018 - WOW!!

All in all, when coming back to cinelerra (this time cingg) I missed the "all in one tracks" (video and stereo audio in a video track, or stereo audio on an audio track). And I am still struggling with the resolve feature but found workflows to get the same accurate results as in kdenlive.

This post was modified 3 months ago by capslock

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WPfilmmaker2
(@wpfilmmaker2)
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Joined: 4 months ago
Posts: 14
19/01/2019 12:22 am  

Wow thanks for the exhaustive report!


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PhyllisSmith
(@phyllissmith)
Member Moderator
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 5
19/01/2019 4:53 pm  

Interesting comparison of Cin-GG and Kdenlive.  I have looked on the internet for Kdenlive with Resolve Transition and find nothing.  What is "applying a resolve transition between two overlaying tracks"?  I know you have found a workaround but if there is a demo for Kdenlive out there or documentation about it, I am curious if it would be something easier to add to cin-gg.  But I do not believe "all in one tracks" would ever get added.

Also, thanks for the definition of "scrum master" as I had never heard of that!


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capslock
(@capslock)
Active Member
Joined: 4 months ago
Posts: 6
19/01/2019 7:03 pm  

Yay, the transition is called Dissolve, just saw it's the same as in cin-gg - sorry for wasting your time...

kdenlive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDc0qTV2Xww

Shotcut provides dissolve in one track like this:  https://youtu.be/NUDCcq6WcJU?t=109

So, as you have to deal with a lot of tracks in cin-gg I would prefer some dissolve transition editable in one line.

 


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cinadmin
(@cinadmin)
Member Admin
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 15
19/01/2019 7:46 pm  

In Kdenlive this effect is created with two tracks, in Cin-GG you can create the same effect with just one track, similar to what Shotcut does. You insert two clips directly to each other in a track and then insert the transition dissolve, that's it.
You don't need as many tracks as with Kdenlive. Cin-GG does it like Shotcut, but for the audio track the cross-fade has to be inserted separately. Maybe a small extension can be built in, which is optional, that when inserting Dissolve the cross-fade can also be inserted automatically on the audio track, that would certainly make the work a bit easier. If you want to make such a suggestion, then I would ask you to open a ticket in MantisBT.

Sam


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capslock
(@capslock)
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Joined: 4 months ago
Posts: 6
19/01/2019 8:32 pm  

@cinadmin
Yes, I know how to add a dissolve in cingg. But imagine you need to have a dissolve to end at a certain frame F of the second clip. In kdenlive you simply trim the second clip to that frame, put that short clip under the end of the first (right end under right end), add dissolve and then drag the right end of the second clip to the length you need.

In cinelerra I have to measure the distance from frame F to the cut between the two clips by selecting the section. Then do some mathematics (distance shown in secs:frames in my settings) and adjust the dissolve to the correct time.

It would be perfect if one could simply drag the right end of the dissolve transition to the frame F as if dissolve would be an effect. Then we have easy to edit accurate dissolves in one line. 🙂 As a second shot: If the dissolve could be adjusted in secs:frames instead of pure secs it would also be easier. 

This post was modified 3 months ago by capslock

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cinadmin
(@cinadmin)
Member Admin
Joined: 5 months ago
Posts: 15
19/01/2019 9:00 pm  

Now I understand the problem. I have to agree with you, that unfortunately doesn't work. I just noticed while testing that the extended trim features don't work when the transition is inserted. Only the left clip is shown. If you hold down the Shift key and drag the cutting edge between two clips, both clips are displayed in the compositor, but it doesn't work if a transition is inserted.

I think your idea is very good, maybe we could combine your suggestion with the extended display of both clips in the compositor, if technically feasible. I have attached a screenshot. I would support the idea if you open a ticket. You are welcome to add my screenshots if you like my idea with the compositor.

https://ibb.co/kH1RsVj
https://ibb.co/VWvtQ8y

Sam


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