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|ID||Project||Category||View Status||Date Submitted||Last Update|
|0000574||Cinelerra-GG||[All Projects] Feature||public||2021-06-05 11:25||2021-06-10 06:46|
|Priority||normal||Severity||minor||Reproducibility||have not tried|
|Target Version||Fixed in Version|
|Summary||0000574: My Review 2021-06|
|Description||I was looking for an alternative to Audacity and I discovered Cinelerra GG that is exclusively for Linux (and FreeBSD), seems professionnal and rich in feature. The Website is simple and elegant. The documentation is huge. There are many tutorials on Youtube. Great, I want to learn!|
The workspace and the timeline are not intuitive. I struggled at the begining. But once understood its behaviour, it's the smartest timeline. A/V clips, transitions, overlays, keyframes, curves, effects, subtitles are in one window. If there is an editing mistake, I know where to look. Although this is the strong point of the software, it's not perfect:
- No snapping between A/V clips, effects, keyframes, transitions and the playhead (insertion point) on all the tracks.
- No curve for mask, then only one type of keyframes.
- No shortcut to navigate between the keyframes -> Shift - left/right arrow.
- Shift - F12 (create a keyframe) only on the enabled curves of the unlocked tracks.
- Only one type of keyframes for the effects.
The mask, another strong point, is a perfect tool of CinGG. But the perfection has not a limit if you are ambitious:
- Stroke: Outline/Inline, Fade, Feather and Color.
- Always apply masks before plugins...
Yes, because my idea would be to create a mask symbol on the effect bar, like that we can decide to create masks only on one effect at a time.
A large choice of plugins/effects are available with the excellent Blue Banana, Perspective and Title. There are missing effects: Typewriter (Title), Outline, DeLogo, Vertigo, Trails, Earthquake, Letter spacing (Title), Multicolor gradient... Or maybe there are in ffmpeg plugins, but only if these plugins are usable and only if your clip suffers from underexposure. Why all the ffmpeg plugins overexpose the clips...? The best chromakey plugin is that of ffmpeg (simplicity and precision), but again with the automatic overexposition...
But the big problem is, when I apply a plugin or a transition, CinGG loses all its fluidity to play a clip. Between Proxy 1:1 and native clips, I don't see the difference. I tried the Background Rendering, but it's too slow. The rendering is also slow... However I followed all the instructions of the chapter "Performance and other Tips" for my NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760. Here is some tests with a clip (Full HD, 260MB, 48 seconds):
- Background Rendering with Blur plugin -> 11m05
- Background Rendering without plugin -> 1m10
- Rendering h264_nvenc with Blur plugin -> 8m51
- Rendering h264 with Blur plugin -> I don't want to test!
- Rendering h264_nvenc without plugin -> 1m17
- Rendering h264 without plugin -> 2m36
I get similar results with a Proxy 1:1 (5MB).
With Kdenlive, the results of the same test are:
- 0 second for the playback
- 39 seconds for the rendering with Blur effect (h246_nvenc)
- 46 seconds for the rendering with Blur effect (h246)
- Rendering without the effect? No need to test...
Missing feathers: Metadata and DCP.
Cinelerra GG Infinity is like a super beautiful girl with dream shapes and her intriguing behaviour. She is open mind, flexible and understanding. Cindy is able to bring out all your creativity. She loves you. You love Cindy. But she always says: "You will be allowed to touch me after two years at our wedding."
|Tags||No tags attached.|
As suggested by you, I confirm that I have transferred our discussion to the BT575.
I hope this procedure meets your wishes.
Maybe it's better to compress the script in zip or tar? Anyway we can continue here or create another BT#
Indeed, Render Farm must be activated to obtain such performance. That's why I asked you what hardware you were working on. I also confirm that my script uses 4 instances of Cindy.
I just tried to create a new topic on the forum and add my bash script as an attachment and SURPRISE... I get this message "A potentially unsafe operation has been detected in your request to this site".
So my question is, can you tell me how I can upload my bash script to the forum?
error.jpg (118,337 bytes)
error.jpg (118,337 bytes)
@fary54 & @Andrea_Paz [sono bresciano]
With your monstrous PC, I guess you can edit video in 20K and open 5 instances of Cindy! I hope your wives/girlfriends are not too jealous...
- Intel i7 870 with 8 threads
- hard disk
- 10 minutes (but tell us how to change that)
This script works only when the Render Farm is enabled, right?
I saw the problem this time (image). "Please, try again without VPN." NO!!!
vpn-forum.png (7,784 bytes)
vpn-forum.png (7,784 bytes)
The forum and the bug tracker are two different systems that unfortunately do not use the same user database. For this reason you have to register separately in the forum. I would ask you to sign in to the forum, then I can see what the reason for this error is. Thank you in advance
"What do you think? "
OK, good idea.
AMD Threadripper 3960x (24c/48t)
128 GB RAM
So, without a doubt, you'll have to make some modifications or you'll blow the CPU temperatures.
In order to continue the discussion, wouldn't it be better if I created a new topic on BT or on the forum so as not to overload @pallium's BT574 unnecessarily?
What do you think?
My PC is pretty good and meant for editing and graphics:
AMD Ryzen 3700X (8c/16t)
RAM 32 GB
Video card AMD Radeon RX 5700XT (now stable and good for games but still immature and unusable for OpenCL, Deep Learning, etc.)
My projects are 10 - 30 min video tutorials for YouTube (but I often do them via high quality intermediates. Out of curiosity, not necessity).
@pallium [sei senese, per caso? Io si]
Accounts for forums and Bug trackers (and mailing lists) are different, but can be done with the same password, username and email.
In order to use my script, it is necessary to have a powerful machine, many threads and that the duration of the film to be treated is consequent.
Otherwise, the processing will not be optimal.
Can you give me the characteristics of your hardware:
- processor and number of threads
- ssd or hard disk
- length of film to be processed
Waiting to hear from you.
"I need to read again this part of the manuel, since my intention is to use CinGG professionally."
To use Cin GG professionally you also need the same features. As for @Andrea_Paz provide me with the characteristics of your material.
I look forward to hearing from you.
It's also thanks to the huge documentation and tutorials.
Mask: You should ask to create a Mask plugin, like that you could apply a Motion plugin on it. Maybe it would be the solution for applying a mask on only one plugin? Another good feater would be the tracking point: each point of the mask would follow precise pixels.
Rumble plugin: I think we can get an earthquake effect by taking time to configure it.
& @fary54, I will test more deeply the Render Farm. I haven't understood yet. I need to read again this part of the manuel, since my intention is to use CinGG professionally.
@PhyllisSmith & @administrator
I had used the same email for the forum. If you want I to create an account there, can you delete my account here? I don't need two accounts.
WOW. Can you share your script, that I try to adapt it to my PC?
I'm trying to look at scheduling and cpu_governor to see if I can get CinGG to use more threads in playback and rendering; but it's a subject I understand too little about...
I confirm a rendering performance problem and the thread optimization is not up to par. Like many, I use the Render Farm to optimize all this.
Not being a programmer, I created a small bash script to automate the creation of the render farm and provide each thread without exceeding a processor operating temperature of 85/90 degrees Celsius.
Of course this script is only a temporary solution because its settings are optimized for my type of video file and my pc.
I can't find anyone in our forum database with your email address. Did you use a different email address for the forum registration?
You can try to subscribe to the forum, then I will activate you manually, just let me know when you are done, even if you don't get a confirmation email.
I will see if I can figure out why you can not join the forum.
Next autos shortcut (mask, pan, ...) is Alt-a
Previous autos shortcut is Ctrl-Alt-a
Congratulations, you've only been using CinGG for 2 weeks and you've already gone very deep into its knowledge. It is an indication that you are a good editor!
Mask: since the interpolation is only linear, IgorBeg proposed a workaround to mimic a curve with small linear segments. See:
It would be nice to be able to implement your suggestions; unfortunately in CinGG the mask is just a "hole" and not true rotoscoping. Another missing feature for masks is the ability to be able to track them with "Motion Tracking".
Earthquake filter: I don't know if the "Rumble" filter can do anything similar to what you are asking.
Performance is an issue that has been mentioned many times. For example to me and also to others (but not all) CinGG uses only one thread, even in rendering. The problem is magnified when using mkvs. For rendering the only workaround I've found is to use the Render Farm. I guess this problem will remain unless we find a C++ programmer with knowledge of OpenGL and graphics.
Very nice your conclusion about Cindy!
Can you do something about pallium's problem of not being able to sign up for the forum?
I don't use the forum because I tried twice to create an account there and I never received an e-mail of confirmation.
Sorry for that. You can open a ticket for that, for example.
...shortcut. But they doesn't work for the keyframes of curves, mask, mode and pan. It's only for the keyframes of the plugins, right?
There is a shortcut also for that but you have already write the review. I don't know if I can help you. ;-)
I go to bed. Good night (I hope).
With a color model RGB/A, the F_plugins are not overcontrasted anymore. Thanks.
Bitrate of the clip: native 44,9 Mbit/s; proxy 1:1 936 Kbit/s
Great, thanks for the shortcut. But they doesn't work for the keyframes of curves, mask, mode and pan. It's only for the keyframes of the plugins, right?
I don't use the forum because I tried twice to create an account there and I never received an e-mail of confirmation. So I created an account here. With this account, we can not login to the forum, right? So what shoud I do? What do you want I to write here? I have to send to you my issue in private before and, if you accept, I will be allowed to post my issue here...? For my next review, will you post it with your account on the forum?
But if you hate too much my review here, if you can not sleep because of nightmares of my review, if you are suddenly constipated because of my review, delete my review or ask someone to do it. :-)
It's up to you. You decide for me. O my Lord...
I don't understand why you did a review here at MantisBT. In my humble opinion it does not seem the right place. I would understand you had made it in the forum.
You have done a review of only certainties.
How can the community answer if you don't ask questions? I'm sorry. Byeeee.
But she always says: "You will be allowed to touch me after two years at our wedding."
Hahahah. Yes, this was really funny. =)
Thanks for the video on ffmpeg filters issues. Switch to Settings->Format RGB-... or RGBA-... and the problem foes away as you can see in: https://streamable.com/ihn3az
I should know what the reason is, but it is beyond my scope of understanding.
The Trails and Vertigo are really nice effects and would be great to have. Outline is OK too.
About: "Between Proxy 1:1 and native clips, I don't see the difference."
-- just a quick comment, Proxy 1:1 does not provide any speed up unless the bitrate is actually reduced.
About: "No shortcut to navigate between the keyframes -> Shift - left/right arrow." Here are the documented shortcuts for plugin keyframes:
-- Next keyframe --- k
-- Previous keyframe --- Ctrl-k
-- Next keyframe select --- Shift-K (Select from cursor to next keyframe)
-- Previous keyframe select --- Ctrl-Shift-K (Select from cursor to next keyframe)
Rumble... Ho yes, thanks!
Outline: Paint Bucket (Premiere) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox9KCU4MRXo. This effect can be applied after a chromakey or just on rescaled/croped clip (video below).
Vertigo (Shotcut): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOsFYWb_Ypc
Trails: Echo (Premiere) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etmTyBkBDls
Maybe the term "overcontrasted" would be more correct (video below).
outline-chromakey.webm (519,664 bytes)
F_plugins-bug.webm (3,717,228 bytes)
About: "The workspace and the timeline are not intuitive. I struggled at the beginning. But once understood its behaviour, it's the smartest timeline."
-- The above is all very true. "Intuitive" is subject to the "current" prevailing understanding but when Cinelerra was first written about in the year 2000, computer hardware and software was a lot less robust and things we take for granted today were not yet widely available. I have not yet used a program that does not take some getting used to and the hardest ones to use are the ones in the same discipline when you are used to doing something another way.
About: "There are missing effects: Typewriter (Title), Outline, DeLogo, Vertigo, Trails, Earthquake, Letter spacing (Title), Multicolor gradient..."
-- Outline is available with F_edgedetect or even manually via Tracer. Earthquake-like is the plugin rumbler. Delogo is F_delogo. Does not seem to be alternatives for the other ones. Because ffmpeg is so necessary for Cindy these days, there is no impetus to duplicate already existing/working plugins like F_edgedetect and F_delogo.
About: "only if your clip suffers from underexposure. Why all the ffmpeg plugins overexpose the clips...? The best chromakey plugin is that of ffmpeg (simplicity and precision), but again with the automatic overexposition..."
-- I do not understand what you are saying here as I have never heard of anyone mentioning this problem and have not seen it myself.
Thank you for taking the time to give us your feedback. It will take awhile to absorb the information you provided.
I would not be at all surprised if @Andrea_Paz and @IgorBeg will have "ways" to perform some of the issues
that are not obvious when starting out.
P.S. Another nickname for Cinelerra-GG, Cindy, is an interesting one ! cin or sin are some of the co-names.
|2021-06-05 11:25||pallium||New Issue|
|2021-06-05 13:55||PhyllisSmith||Note Added: 0004779|
|2021-06-05 17:02||PhyllisSmith||Note Added: 0004782|
|2021-06-05 17:02||PhyllisSmith||Assigned To||=> PhyllisSmith|
|2021-06-05 17:02||PhyllisSmith||Status||new => acknowledged|
|2021-06-05 20:51||pallium||File Added: outline-chromakey.webm|
|2021-06-05 20:51||pallium||File Added: F_plugins-bug.webm|
|2021-06-05 20:51||pallium||Note Added: 0004783|
|2021-06-06 00:23||PhyllisSmith||Note Added: 0004784|
|2021-06-06 00:26||PhyllisSmith||Note Edited: 0004784||View Revisions|
|2021-06-06 00:30||PhyllisSmith||Note Edited: 0004784||View Revisions|
|2021-06-06 00:35||PhyllisSmith||Note Edited: 0004784||View Revisions|
|2021-06-06 07:00||IgorBeg||Note Added: 0004785|
|2021-06-06 09:13||pallium||Note Added: 0004786|
|2021-06-06 10:14||IgorBeg||Note Added: 0004787|
|2021-06-06 18:27||Andrea_Paz||Note Added: 0004788|
|2021-06-06 18:31||PhyllisSmith||Note Added: 0004789|
|2021-06-06 18:48||administrator||Note Added: 0004790|
|2021-06-07 07:20||fary54||Note Added: 0004791|
|2021-06-07 08:54||Andrea_Paz||Note Added: 0004792|
|2021-06-08 04:06||pallium||Note Added: 0004795|
|2021-06-08 06:20||fary54||Note Added: 0004796|
|2021-06-08 11:15||Andrea_Paz||Note Added: 0004797|
|2021-06-08 11:17||Andrea_Paz||Note Edited: 0004797||View Revisions|
|2021-06-08 12:18||fary54||Note Added: 0004798|
|2021-06-08 13:58||Andrea_Paz||Note Added: 0004799|
|2021-06-08 14:51||administrator||Note Added: 0004800|
|2021-06-08 17:28||pallium||File Added: vpn-forum.png|
|2021-06-08 17:28||pallium||Note Added: 0004801|
|2021-06-09 07:14||fary54||File Added: error.jpg|
|2021-06-09 07:14||fary54||Note Added: 0004802|
|2021-06-09 12:04||Andrea_Paz||Note Added: 0004803|
|2021-06-09 12:05||Andrea_Paz||Note Edited: 0004803||View Revisions|
|2021-06-10 06:46||fary54||Note Added: 0004804|