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IDProjectCategoryView StatusLast Update
0000256Cinelerra-GG[All Projects] Bugpublic2019-07-08 22:08
ReporterMatN Assigned ToPhyllisSmith  
PrioritynormalSeverityminorReproducibilityalways
Status acknowledgedResolutionopen 
PlatformX86_64OSMintOS Version19.1
Product Version 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0000256: Tooltip for Settings->Preferences->Performance->Use HW Device not good for amdgpu
Description

Release 2019-06.
The tooltip shows that for amdgpu you should use vdpau. I think it is better to set amdgpu at vaapi.
Reasons:

  • vdpau is an old interface, not actively being developed.
  • vdpau is not available on older AMD GPUs, while vaapi is.
  • vdpau is decode-only (although this entry is of course for decode).
  • vaapi decodes VP9, vdpau does not.
    To be sure, vdpau supports some formats that vaapi does not, like MPEG4_PART2 and H264_Baseline. I don´t know how relevant these are nowadays.

See the attached screenshot of what I could test regarding encode/decode support. The AMD HD4290 is a GPU in a chipset of a motherboard from 2012.
Maybe in the document about hardware acceleration add a link to the archwiki page with the supported formats? https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Hardware_video_acceleration .

TagsNo tags attached.

Activities

PhyllisSmith

PhyllisSmith

2019-07-08 22:08

manager   ~0001884

I have updated the hardware acceleration temporary document at:
https://www.cinelerra-gg.org/download/GPU_potential_speedup.pdf
to reflect the suggested changes.

I will mark this closed in a couple of days.

PhyllisSmith

PhyllisSmith

2019-07-08 18:18

manager   ~0001880

Last edited: 2019-07-08 18:31

View 2 revisions

MatN: I have changed the vdpauinfo output by running the command on a different computer so that the vaapi restrictions are not there. Thanks for pointing that out as it could be quite misleading.

And about the link that Andrea pointed out and the response of "his mail clearly shows why it is preferable to have Cinelerra as a complete build with minimum reliance on outside stuff", I have some feedback. When Adam wrote the original code, I do not think ffmpeg was such a big deal so that Mpeg, Quicktime, etc. were all pretty much built in. Now users expect all of the ffmpeg codecs to be available so you have to rely on this outside library and it changes so fast with a large number of programmers, that a single full-time developer could never keep up.

But here is the real problem -- the user does a lot of editing/work and now wants to create a nice output video. Will it render correctly using ffmpeg that is NOT INCLUDED with Cinelerra in the thirdparty directory, but is the user's distro system version? Currently CinGG uses 4.1 and that is what is tested (and as Andrea knows well, only some of the ffmpeg filters work on each different version and have to be commented out). Mint 19 ships with ffmpeg 3.4; Fedora 29 ships with 3.1.4; Ubuntu 18 appears to be 3.4.2... and so on. There is never going to be any coordination of the distros and the shipped ffmpeg library .

In summary, the reliance of Cinelerra on specific versions of thirdparty libraries is necessary so THAT IT WORKS RELIABLY. (P.S. here is what happens when you DON'T have the thirdparty library included -- you end up with LV2 problems crashing the user's work or you end up with hardware acceleration not even being implemented using Nvenc because Mint 19 ships with a pre-390.25 version of the Nvidia software.)

MatN

MatN

2019-07-07 11:04

reporter   ~0001874

Phyllis:
Just a note: In the ¨speedup¨ pdf the output of vdpauinfo shows it to be a layer on top of vaapi. This of course limits the vdpau capabilities to that of the underlying vaapi.
On my amdgpu driver, the two are separate; hence vdpau supports some formats that vaapi does not, and vice-versa/

MatN

MatN

2019-07-07 10:35

reporter   ~0001873

Andrea:
Thanks for the mailing list link. I can understand their philosophy, but his mail clearly shows why it is preferable to have Cinelerra as a complete build with minimum reliance on outside stuff. This is also the reason for Flatpak and AppImage.

This brings up an interesting idea: add one of those as supported build. I´ll make an new issue for it.

Andrea_Paz

Andrea_Paz

2019-07-07 08:13

updater   ~0001872

MatN: "The arch wiki does not list Cinelerra, too bad."
https://lists.cinelerra-gg.org/pipermail/cin/2018-December/000102.html
The result of this email exchange was to remove cinelerra from the repository (it now exists only on AUR). Not being in the official repositories can not even have an entry in the wiki.

PhyllisSmith

PhyllisSmith

2019-07-06 22:28

manager   ~0001869

I do have a lot of the information already in at:
https://www.cinelerra-gg.org/download/GPU_potential_speedup.pdf (a cut from my local manual version)

to include definition of vaapi/vdpau and executing vainfo/vdpauinfo but the Comparison tables in the Arch wiki are very useful, and I would not want to just copy them to the manual as there was a lot of work done by someone to create them. So I guess what I am saying is that for now I would prefer to stick to the URL link that I did insert here (did not update the temporary GPU....pdf file though).

Yes, it would be really nice for Arch wiki to include Cinelerra; eventually it might!

MatN

MatN

2019-07-06 12:18

reporter   ~0001865

It would be better to have an own reference, could we take the Arch wiki info about vaapi etc. and put it in the HW acceleration section of the manual (presuming the seperate document makes it in there)? The manual theoretically is updated each month, so would never be far behind.

The arch wiki does not list Cinelerra, too bad. I wanted to install Arch to test and then correct that wiki, but the download and checksums don´t match, have to look into it.

Sam

Sam

2019-07-01 23:58

administrator   ~0001841

Great job Mat!

PhyllisSmith

PhyllisSmith

2019-07-01 23:56

manager   ~0001840

MatN: wow, thanks for the chart of what you tested -- this stuff is beyond my interest.
I will update the tooltip accordingly and add the link to the documentation. Although I am somewhat hesitant to refer to an arch wiki link, I think it is necessary in this case due to so much confusion.

MatN

MatN

2019-07-01 10:51

reporter  

HW_Accel.png (45,627 bytes)
HW_Accel.png (45,627 bytes)

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
2019-07-01 10:51 MatN New Issue
2019-07-01 10:51 MatN File Added: HW_Accel.png
2019-07-01 23:56 PhyllisSmith Assigned To => PhyllisSmith
2019-07-01 23:56 PhyllisSmith Status new => acknowledged
2019-07-01 23:56 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0001840
2019-07-01 23:58 Sam Note Added: 0001841
2019-07-06 12:18 MatN Note Added: 0001865
2019-07-06 22:28 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0001869
2019-07-07 08:13 Andrea_Paz Note Added: 0001872
2019-07-07 10:35 MatN Note Added: 0001873
2019-07-07 11:04 MatN Note Added: 0001874
2019-07-08 18:18 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0001880
2019-07-08 18:31 PhyllisSmith Note Edited: 0001880 View Revisions
2019-07-08 22:08 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0001884