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IDProjectCategoryView StatusLast Update
0000511Cinelerra-GG[All Projects] Bugpublic2020-10-12 12:22
Reportersolarix Assigned ToPhyllisSmith  
PrioritynormalSeveritytrivialReproducibilityalways
Status assignedResolutionopen 
Product Version2020-07 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0000511: Compositor: Camera-Settings (F9) Slider limited to +/- 100
DescriptionThe X-Range/Y-Range Sliders (and Imput-Fields) in the Camera-Settings Dialog (Compositor-Window + F9) are limited to +/- 100 Pixels.
In the original Cinelerra-CV, both attributs are simple line-edits without any limits. The User should be able to enter a free value (+/- 10'000..).

Steps To ReproduceUsed SW-Version: cinelerra-5.1-ub16.04-20200831.x86_64-static.txz

1) Open the Compositor-Window
2) Open the Camera-Setting Dialog ("?"-Icon, or press F9)
3) Field "X:" or "Y:": try to enter a value > 100.. not possible

TagsNo tags attached.

Activities

IgorBeg

IgorBeg

2020-10-12 12:22

reporter   ~0004248

Okay @PhyllisSmith! Thanks!

PS:
Thanks for the word "talents" but, unfortunately, I am a common person. ;-)
PhyllisSmith

PhyllisSmith

2020-10-11 20:22

manager   ~0004240

@IgorBeg
Since you created them for SUV and Cakewalk, that is sufficient for now. We would rather you use your talents on something more productive.
IgorBeg

IgorBeg

2020-10-10 07:18

reporter   ~0004231

Thanks @PhyllisSmith. Do you want I create the "autorange" PNGs (with |-|+|) for the other themes, or it doesn't matter?
PhyllisSmith

PhyllisSmith

2020-10-09 01:16

manager   ~0004222

@IgorBeg
Thank you for confirming that the yellow line is NOT off by 10 pixels as I do not yet understand Camera/Projector usage.
Plus, thank you for the SUV and Cakewalk autorange icons -- checked into GIT today.
@Andrew-R
We revisited the size of the menu "perhaps it is possible to optimize the use of space between elements to make it more compact" BUT the real reason GG wanted to make it longer was to put all of the icons on the bottom in a single line with labels over them to make it clearer what they are. Before there were just a bunch of symbols that were hard to guess their purpose.

I think we are done with this BT so unless hear otherwise, it will be marked Resolved after the next builds.
IgorBeg

IgorBeg

2020-10-03 11:40

reporter   ~0004130

Thanks Sam and Andrea_Paz.

More or less like Andrea_Paz, I prefer to use the tumbler, on the right side of the Range limits because it increase/decrease the limits in symmetrical way. My taste of course. But, with my "autorange" buttons the Graphics is now less heavy, I think. Many tumblers there were before. Sorry.
Andrea_Paz

Andrea_Paz

2020-10-03 10:51

updater   ~0004125

@IgorBeg
Perfect, thank you! I also replaced reset.png, I like yours more because it has the dot.

But I like more a single button: the one on the right increases the limits of the range symmetrically. The left one narrows the limits of the range. You lose the possibility of asymmetric changes, but it does not seem important to me.
Sam

Sam

2020-10-03 10:24

administrator   ~0004123

@IgorBeg
Great. I like these buttons.
IgorBeg

IgorBeg

2020-10-03 09:33

reporter   ~0004122

BUT question of Solarix, is it off by 10 pixels???
No!
It is perfect! (Cin_20200931_release)
IgorBeg

IgorBeg

2020-10-03 09:23

reporter   ~0004121

Here a demo for Cakewalk theme with "autorange" buttons.
https://streamable.com/5m5hpg

I don't know how many users like my "autorange" button.
Anyway I uploaded two compressed file with the "autorange" buttons for SUV and Cakewalk themes.

@Andrea_Paz
I think you know where to insert the PNGs in the right place and re-make the build. Let me know, please.

Export_20200101_SUV_autorange.tar.gz (820 bytes)
Export_20200103_cakewalk_autorange.tar.gz (765 bytes)
PhyllisSmith

PhyllisSmith

2020-10-02 19:24

manager   ~0004118

@solarix
About your comment " I personally don't like the limits/boundaries also during the drag-and-drop operation of the yellow camera rect right on the compositor. It feels like a broken mouse ("I need it 10 more pixels left.. WTH?"). But I don't have an idea (yet) how to solve this elegant there."

The yellow camera was discussed in a closed but 0000185 but that is a lot to have to read. In summary:

PROBLEM: "the green frame does not represent the projector boundary, the green frame represents the camera boundary. Only the red frame represents the projector boundary. Therefore, the green frame cannot keep the same size and position as the red frame. The red frame indicates in which direction and size I have changed the project view. However, the green frame does not currently show me in which direction and size I have changed the camera view. But this visual information is exactly what the green frame is supposed to give me. In which direction and size did I change the camera view? Unfortunately, I can't get this information from anywhere at the moment, because the green frame is used to display the projector view visually. I always have to insert an image to find out in which direction I changed the camera view. Without an inserted image it is currently pure speculation how the camera view was changed."
SOLUTION: "In the Camera view a yellow outline box has been added and checked into GIT. Hopefully this will provide good information for both points of view on usage."
COMMENTARY: "I just tested it, it works fantastic. You have found the best solution. I think Igor will be just as happy with that. You can always see all the bound" and "Really, really well done. PERFECT."

So the yellow line is never going away BUT question of Solarix, is it off by 10 pixels????
Andrea_Paz

Andrea_Paz

2020-10-02 15:59

updater   ~0004117

You're right; my mistake.
Can your beautiful icons also be used in Cakewalk?
IgorBeg

IgorBeg

2020-10-02 08:10

reporter   ~0004099

@Andrea_Paz wrote: "The current ones, the horizontal thumblers, are confusing because they usually indicate two actions (left or right) while in this case they are a single button. "
I think you are missing something. The horizontal tumbler works like its parent (vertical tumbler) but in horizontal.

@Andrea_Paz wrote: " If you leave the thumblers, I would say to replace them with the icons proposed by IgorBeg."
Unfortunately those icons can not be used for the goal.

I have done a simple icon for the SUV theme to be different from the other tumblers. It is a demo. if You want, we can discuss it. And if it like to You (all of you), I could make it for the other theme (I need a few of time).
Scrrencast at https://streamable.com/4h8xiu

PNGs added.

autorange_up.png (229 bytes)
autorange_up.png (229 bytes)
autorange_hi.png (239 bytes)
autorange_hi.png (239 bytes)
autorange_top.png (252 bytes)
autorange_top.png (252 bytes)
autorange_bottom.png (237 bytes)
autorange_bottom.png (237 bytes)
Andrea_Paz

Andrea_Paz

2020-10-01 22:19

updater   ~0004097

First proposal, others are certainly more talented than me...

x-y-z.png (2,366 bytes)
x-y-z.png (2,366 bytes)
x-y-z.svg (6,529 bytes)
PhyllisSmith

PhyllisSmith

2020-09-30 14:39

manager   ~0004089

GG writes here about Andrea's last post:

Yes, I like the idea. It definitely would look better. I needed 55 icons fast, and so I
wrote a program to transpose the current vertical set of tumbler icons. I do have
more time now, and perhaps can make new images, but you guys have much more
talent in this part of design that I was just waiting to see if there were volunteers.
Theme based icons are a double edged sword. They make each theme individual,
but demand a complete rework if you want them to be a custom job.

gg
Andrea_Paz

Andrea_Paz

2020-09-30 11:45

updater   ~0004088

I like the large, clear window (I am weak in vision). If you leave the thumblers, I would say to replace them with the icons proposed by IgorBeg. The current ones, the horizontal thumblers, are confusing because they usually indicate two actions (left or right) while in this case they are a single button. In addition there are already many thumblers in the window increasing the confusion. I'm also fine with taking them out to recover a little space: the design is even cleaner. After all, their function is already fulfilled by the thumblers in the Range input box.
I don't like the idea of a partially hidden window, but since I can't judge how serious the problem is on small monitors, I also accept this solution, if considered the best.
solarix

solarix

2020-09-29 21:52

reporter   ~0004085

Wow what an open and lively discussion here. Usability issues are nerver easy (I'm professional C++/Qt/Linux Developer). i completely agree with all of your points (from "new users (hopefully) will become used to this dialog users" (Yes: I'm already in this situation :)) to "We do not like the size all that much either, but[...] no one even paid any attention to the "expand range" (that's true: the first reply was a confirmation after all..).

Just one hint: IMHO the discussion is all about the edit-dialog. I personally don't like the limits/boundaries also during the drag-and-drop operation of the yellow camera rect right on the compositor. It feels like a broken mouse ("I need it 10 more pixels left.. WTH?"). But I don't have an idea (yet) how to solve this elegant there..

Offtopic but important: Thank you all for your commitment! I'm cin-cv user since 2009. It's simply the best...
PhyllisSmith

PhyllisSmith

2020-09-29 20:41

manager   ~0004084

@Andrew-R
Oooooh, I really like the idea of embedding the color balls in the sliders, but I think GG was going to allow for changing their color like you can in the Show Overlays window by clicking on them. We did notice that the slider can disappear so if you hit the reset button, it comes right back.
Andrew-R

Andrew-R

2020-09-29 17:49

reporter   ~0004083

> perhaps it is possible to optimize the use of space between elements to make it more compact

May be make color balls 'embedded' in slider's color?

Strangely, but I can make slider disappear by entering wild 'range':
Like -79 to -21 (was playing whit mouse scroll in imput fields and around sliders - it works...just may lead to such visual surprize :} )

sliders.png (74,929 bytes)
sliders.png (74,929 bytes)
Pierre

Pierre

2020-09-29 16:55

updater   ~0004082

Personally, I appreciate the information as presented in the window prepared by GG.

I like the presence of the horizontal range tumblers; I find that they make the configuration of the plug-in intuitive and immediately understandable, the other adjustments allow to refine the choices in a more precise way.

I also find that one should avoid hiding the configuration tools, everything should be apparent at first glance.

If the configuration window is considered too large, perhaps it is possible to optimize the use of space between elements to make it more compact, but I wouldn't eliminate configuration tools to do so.
PhyllisSmith

PhyllisSmith

2020-09-29 15:40

manager   ~0004081

Last edited: 2020-09-29 15:41

View 2 revisions

@Andrew-R
We do not like the size all that much either, but want to make it as obvious as possible rather than having to go down to the zoom bar to modify the range. It is a lot longer for sure BUT as you can see in Note #4067, no one even paid any attention to the "expand range" and not only new users but existing users did not take advantage of these arrows. Instead a BT would be opened. The goal here was to make everything immediately obvious and not have to change it again -- if you make something "hidden" (which it already was) it does not get seen at all. For compariston, attached is the original from way, way back.

I will see what GG thinks about removing the horizontal range tumblers and the color balls but I do not think he will want to.



original.png (4,878 bytes)
original.png (4,878 bytes)
IgorBeg

IgorBeg

2020-09-29 09:20

reporter   ~0004080

Thanks GG for the improvement; aAnd Phyllis for the image and Sam for the video.
Unfortunately, the end of the month is at the door, and there is little time, I think, for the monthly builds.

I have to agree with Andrew-R for a few of things.
Why don't delete the horizontal tumbler? You have the tumbler on the Range that works very well.
More or less like in "Cin_20200929_ProjCamWindow_d.png"
Or, in different way, like Andrew-R said, "Cin_20200929_ProjCamWindow_c1ab.gif": the eye icon show/hide the Range.
Keep in mind I done them very quickly.

The really good thing for me, just now, is that the Clear button, on the right side of the slider, reset the Range to the project format; really well done!

Sam

Sam

2020-09-29 08:48

administrator   ~0004079

I have tested the functionality. In itself it was solved quite well by Phyllis/GG. You can define your desired workspace very precisely and/or very quickly. You can move the frame very fast, but also very precisely. Enclosed a video.
https://streamable.com/af49ja
Sam

Sam

2020-09-29 07:55

administrator   ~0004078

Last edited: 2020-09-29 08:51

View 2 revisions

As far as I can remember, the thumblers was a user request, but I'm not sure. Maybe Phyllis or another user can remember it. Update: I think I confused this with another topic.

The window is indeed bigger, but in my opinion absolutely reasonable. Compared to the mask window, this window is small. Personally I am not a friend of hidden options or hidden panels, a window should show all important functions compactly at a glance and this is the case here. This is how I think about it, but tastes are different, so we can certainly discuss it.

Andrew-R

Andrew-R

2020-09-29 07:32

reporter   ~0004077

Hm, but I think new window is bigger :} Are those horizontal thumblers really needed? And overall, new users (hopefully) will become used to this dialog users, so big self-explanatory window will be less needed? Yet it will hang here demanding more mouse movements and precision. May be additional panel can be hidden behind the expander button?
Sam

Sam

2020-09-29 07:03

administrator   ~0004076

It looks very clear and structured. I like it.
PhyllisSmith

PhyllisSmith

2020-09-29 03:27

manager   ~0004075

An updated Camera and Projector based on feedback above has been checked into GIT. It is much nicer and has more specific functions. All of this feedback and suggestions really help to improve CinGG. See image attached.

camera_and_projector.png (20,089 bytes)
camera_and_projector.png (20,089 bytes)
Sam

Sam

2020-09-28 15:25

administrator   ~0004074

The second variant would be this one, I like this one best.

Sam

Sam

2020-09-28 15:15

administrator   ~0004073

I also like Igor's suggestion quite well.
How about the following suggestion? The advantage of my suggestion is that you can enter the range of the X,Y,Z directly or change it with a button. There you can also read off the context directly and it is self-explanatory without the need for additional explanations.

IgorBeg

IgorBeg

2020-09-28 12:22

reporter   ~0004071

I think that for the sliders and its Zoom IN and Zoom OUT would be better change the tumblers with other icons.
Look at my photomontage "Cin_20200927_ProjCamWindow_zoom_a".
And, if possible, as in photomontage "Cin_20200927_ProjCamWindow_zoom_b", where you can see the range on the left and on the right (only texts that you can not edit). It would be more clear.

A different layout for all the icons on the bottom will be need, I would think.

PhyllisSmith

PhyllisSmith

2020-09-28 01:22

manager   ~0004068

Actually this was added around March 10, 2020 per the release notes:
"Slider bars have been added to the Projector and Camera compositor menus for ease of use along
       with tumblers to change the range. All inter-related components are updated accordingly such as
       the zoom bar ranges and the auto xyz lines (Dan feature request)."
PhyllisSmith

PhyllisSmith

2020-09-28 01:17

manager   ~0004067

@solarix
You can easily do what you want -- see the tooltip as shown in the next png.
@Sam
@IgorBeg
"it would be better if I could set it via the input window or show a hint if the user wants to increase this value." This has actually been solved already (probably in another BT). But it is hard to notice -- any suggestions for a"range symbol" to make it easier to see?

expand_range.png (13,846 bytes)
expand_range.png (13,846 bytes)
IgorBeg

IgorBeg

2020-09-27 10:36

reporter   ~0004063

Sam wrote: Why can't I do it via the input window of the camera settings?
You can also use the tumblers on the right side of the slider to increase or decrease the "scale". I don't like this way.

I agree with you, Sam. I would change the way how it works now. And, I would like a percentage slider.
More, just now, there are a lot of icons for the type of keyframe. A new Layout is need, for me. Sorry.
Sam

Sam

2020-09-25 21:59

administrator   ~0004058

@Andrea_Paz
Many thanks for the hint. However, I find it very confusing, a new user will never figure it out by himself. I did not know myself that it is to be adjusted in such a way.

@All
Does it have a reason to do it that way? Why can't I do it via the input window of the camera settings? To avoid the same requests in the future, it would be better if I could set it via the input window or show a hint if the user wants to increase this value.
solarix

solarix

2020-09-25 21:26

reporter   ~0004057

Dooooh.. I'm sorry for wasteing your time. It works. In CV, there was no such connection between the zoom bar and the dialog AFAIK.
Many thanks for the quick reaction!
Andrea_Paz

Andrea_Paz

2020-09-25 20:16

updater   ~0004055

It's a boring problem that everyone gets into sooner or later. You have to go to the bottom of the zoom bar; choose the X and Y curves and set the limits to what you want. See figure.

limits.jpg (10,266 bytes)
limits.jpg (10,266 bytes)
Sam

Sam

2020-09-25 19:40

administrator   ~0004053

I have just tested it and can confirm it. Before, larger values could be entered. Some older projects might not work properly because of this limitation/error.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
2020-09-25 19:09 solarix New Issue
2020-09-25 19:40 Sam Status new => confirmed
2020-09-25 19:40 Sam Note Added: 0004053
2020-09-25 20:16 Andrea_Paz File Added: limits.jpg
2020-09-25 20:16 Andrea_Paz Note Added: 0004055
2020-09-25 21:26 solarix Note Added: 0004057
2020-09-25 21:59 Sam Note Added: 0004058
2020-09-27 10:36 IgorBeg Note Added: 0004063
2020-09-28 01:17 PhyllisSmith File Added: expand_range.png
2020-09-28 01:17 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0004067
2020-09-28 01:17 PhyllisSmith Assigned To => PhyllisSmith
2020-09-28 01:17 PhyllisSmith Status confirmed => feedback
2020-09-28 01:22 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0004068
2020-09-28 12:22 IgorBeg File Added: Cin_20200927_ProjCamWindow_zoom_a.png
2020-09-28 12:22 IgorBeg File Added: Cin_20200927_ProjCamWindow_zoom_b.png
2020-09-28 12:22 IgorBeg Note Added: 0004071
2020-09-28 15:15 Sam File Added: Camera_Projector_Window.jpg
2020-09-28 15:15 Sam Note Added: 0004073
2020-09-28 15:25 Sam File Added: Camera_Projector_Window_02.jpg
2020-09-28 15:25 Sam Note Added: 0004074
2020-09-29 03:27 PhyllisSmith File Added: camera_and_projector.png
2020-09-29 03:27 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0004075
2020-09-29 07:03 Sam Note Added: 0004076
2020-09-29 07:32 Andrew-R Note Added: 0004077
2020-09-29 07:55 Sam Note Added: 0004078
2020-09-29 08:48 Sam Note Added: 0004079
2020-09-29 08:51 Sam Note Edited: 0004078 View Revisions
2020-09-29 09:20 IgorBeg File Added: Cin_20200929_ProjCamWindow_d.png
2020-09-29 09:20 IgorBeg File Added: Cin_20200929_ProjCamWindow_c1ab.gif
2020-09-29 09:20 IgorBeg Note Added: 0004080
2020-09-29 15:40 PhyllisSmith File Added: original.png
2020-09-29 15:40 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0004081
2020-09-29 15:41 PhyllisSmith Note Edited: 0004081 View Revisions
2020-09-29 16:55 Pierre Note Added: 0004082
2020-09-29 17:49 Andrew-R File Added: sliders.png
2020-09-29 17:49 Andrew-R Note Added: 0004083
2020-09-29 20:41 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0004084
2020-09-29 21:52 solarix Note Added: 0004085
2020-09-29 21:52 solarix Status feedback => assigned
2020-09-30 11:45 Andrea_Paz Note Added: 0004088
2020-09-30 14:39 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0004089
2020-10-01 22:19 Andrea_Paz File Added: x-y-z.png
2020-10-01 22:19 Andrea_Paz File Added: x-y-z.svg
2020-10-01 22:19 Andrea_Paz Note Added: 0004097
2020-10-02 08:10 IgorBeg File Added: autorange_up.png
2020-10-02 08:10 IgorBeg File Added: autorange_hi.png
2020-10-02 08:10 IgorBeg File Added: autorange_top.png
2020-10-02 08:10 IgorBeg File Added: autorange_bottom.png
2020-10-02 08:10 IgorBeg Note Added: 0004099
2020-10-02 15:59 Andrea_Paz Note Added: 0004117
2020-10-02 19:24 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0004118
2020-10-03 09:23 IgorBeg File Added: Export_20200101_SUV_autorange.tar.gz
2020-10-03 09:23 IgorBeg File Added: Export_20200103_cakewalk_autorange.tar.gz
2020-10-03 09:23 IgorBeg Note Added: 0004121
2020-10-03 09:33 IgorBeg Note Added: 0004122
2020-10-03 10:24 Sam Note Added: 0004123
2020-10-03 10:51 Andrea_Paz Note Added: 0004125
2020-10-03 11:40 IgorBeg Note Added: 0004130
2020-10-09 01:16 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0004222
2020-10-10 07:18 IgorBeg Note Added: 0004231
2020-10-11 20:22 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0004240
2020-10-12 12:22 IgorBeg Note Added: 0004248