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IDProjectCategoryView StatusLast Update
0000529Cinelerra-GG[All Projects] Bugpublic2020-10-19 16:12
ReporterIgorBeg Assigned ToPhyllisSmith  
PrioritynormalSeverityminorReproducibilityalways
Status acknowledgedResolutionopen 
Platformx64OSLinux-UbuntuStudioOS Version16.04
Product Version 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0000529: Gang Channels mode doesn't work for Video Tracks
DescriptionIn Manual_20200903, Chapter 5.2.1, "Displaying tracks: Ganged mode" is written...
Gang Channels: in this mode, only the Master Tracks and the first track of
video, audio, or subtitles not master will are shown.


Unfortunately it doesn't work for the video tracks.
Here an example:
- Gang None (showed as in timeline from top to bottom)
V3 [Master]
V2 [Slave]
V1 [Slave]
A1 [Master]
A2 [Master]

- Gang Channels (showed as in timeline from top to bottom)
V3 [Master]
A1 [Master]
A2 [Master]

I think it should be...
- Gang Channels (showed as in timeline from top to bottom)
V3 [Master]
V2 [Slave]
A1 [Master]
A2 [Master]

Or is the manual wrong? Thanks!
Additional InformationCin release: Cin_20200930
TagsNo tags attached.

Activities

PhyllisSmith

PhyllisSmith

2020-10-19 16:12

manager   ~0004270

@Andrea_Paz
I have changes the wording in the Manual as you suggested (only locally for now) and also added the sentence: "For users who
routinely switch the track order frequently, the patchbay has the \textit{Master Track} icon to set your own preference." It should be clearer now.

I recognize the possibility of the usefulness of the behavior similar to audio tracks but I do not think it should be the default because there is no way to not do this behavior whereas there is a way to set it. I would recommend the user set it the way they want as there is no way to predict what users do. The "Gang Channels" mode was mostly designed with the Audiophiles in mind, but I have to say GG and I are using it all of the time to easily save space - especially on my laptop.

So I am going to mark this resolved in a couple of days.
Andrea_Paz

Andrea_Paz

2020-10-19 13:56

updater   ~0004269

(Phyllis:) "in this mode, only the Master Tracks will be shown except when there is no Master video, no Master audio or no Master subtitle track, in which case for each the first track of video, audio, and subtitle will be shown."

I would change in: "All master tracks are shown; for audio tracks all master tracks with their first slave track are shown. The exception is when there is no Master video, no Master audio or no Master subtitle track, in which case for each the first track of video, audio, and subtitle will be shown."

Anyway I agree with IgorBeg: I would prefer to show the first slave video track as well. A behavior similar to audio tracks can be useful in the case of cloned or shared tracks.
IgorBeg

IgorBeg

2020-10-18 19:16

reporter   ~0004268

Yes, It was open for discussion in the email "Can 'play track' status propagate to ganged tracks?" but I would like/hope that AVLinux and other Users can tell what they think about.
PhyllisSmith

PhyllisSmith

2020-10-18 17:56

manager   ~0004267

This has been put on GG's list of 10 items that I put by his desktop to work on: "propagate the patchbay buttons (from master to slaves), the worflow would become more intuitive, fast and consistent". It was in an email for discussion and I believe GG thinks it can be done - at least Play Track. It was open for discussion in the email "Can 'play track' status propagate to ganged tracks?"
IgorBeg

IgorBeg

2020-10-18 17:37

reporter   ~0004266

Okay. Thanks Phyllis. Now I have understand.
It is a pity it doesn't work for the Slave Video tracks but I understand.

If You want you can close my ticket (and if Andrea_Paz want).
Thank you!
PhyllisSmith

PhyllisSmith

2020-10-18 17:21

manager   ~0004265

@IgorBeg:
"For Gang Channels mode I thought, from the Manual, that it doesn't matter what is the kind of the first Slave track (audio or video). I thought that always the first Slave track is shown even though video. Am I wrong?" Yes, that is wrong.

The following was a quote from Andrea "In my opinion the best idea would be to show all the master tracks and for each master track the first of its slave tracks. If instead we want to hide all the slave tracks there is Gang Media."
""Exactly. I thought it worked so. Am I wrong?"" Yes, that is wrong.

I think the last update to the manual (which has not been updated yet) as in note 4259 is as succinctly and correctly stated as possible without making it more confusing. Although your workflow is quite a bit different than what that of an Audio person might be, the implementation was based on loading a video that contained multiple audio tracks and therefore the automatic indication of the Master for that video is its first video track.
IgorBeg

IgorBeg

2020-10-18 17:09

reporter   ~0004264

Andrea_Paz wrote: In all these cases, if you could also propagate the patchbay buttons (from master to slaves), the worflow would become more intuitive, fast and consistent.
For me this option should be discussed with more Users and Developers, if possible; ... and in another place?
IgorBeg

IgorBeg

2020-10-18 17:00

reporter   ~0004263

@PhyllisSmith wrote: Please keep in mind that it is not just about what you see ...
Yes, I agree with you: Gang modes is more more complex and useful.
In this issue I am speaking only how the track are shown.

Thanks for your tests.
For me Gang None mode and Gang Media mode are right.
In my case, like in my example, in my timeline there are 3 video tracks and 2 audio tracks. The top Video track (V3) is the Master and the other video tracks are Slave; all the audio tracks are Master.

For Gang Channels mode I thought, from the Manual, that it doesn't matter what is the kind of the first Slave track (audio or video). I thought that always the first Slave track is shown even though video. Am I wrong?

Phyllis wrote: (Gang Channel) In my opinion the best idea would be to show all the master tracks and for each master track the first of its slave tracks. If instead we want to hide all the slave tracks there is Gang Media.
Exactly. I thought it worked so. Am I wrong?
PhyllisSmith

PhyllisSmith

2020-10-18 14:31

manager   ~0004262

@IgorBeg
Please keep in mind that it is not just about what you see -- the point is to add a plugin, or make a change, or modify an auto on a video or audio track and have that propagated to all of the related/corresponding tracks. That way you do not have to drag a plugin to all 6 audio tracks and make a mistake. So that is why you do not want to show the first of its slave tracks. The reason it is called "Gang Channels" is so that you can see the first audio track (whether Master or not) and easily make the necessary changes to it and have it all the other channels changed correspondingly. If you "show" the first slave track, then you have to make the same changes to that slave track as you did the master track. And that is the whole point of having Gang Channels, i.e. to avoid having to duplicate changes.

I did the test yesterday and repeated again today. It works correctly -- you should not see Video 2 or Video 1 because the first track is correctly marked as a Master Track.

n my opinion the best idea would be to show all the master tracks and for each master track the first of its slave tracks. If instead we want to hide all the slave tracks there is Gang Media.
IgorBeg

IgorBeg

2020-10-18 07:57

reporter   ~0004261

Probably, I write in a very bad English but you don't see my example. (For me in the Manual it was written right)
I am saying that "Gang Channels" mode doesn't work correctly: It works fine for the Audio tracks but not for Video tracks.

In "Gang Channels" mode, all tracks marked as "master" are shown BUT if the first track of the video/audio/subtitle track is NOT marked as a Master node, it behaves as if it were.

Please, could you do a test like in my example wrote in Description's issue? You will see that for the first Slave Video track it doesn't work. Thanks!
Andrea_Paz

Andrea_Paz

2020-10-18 07:18

updater   ~0004260

Gang Channel:
In my opinion the best idea would be to show all the master tracks and for each master track the first of its slave tracks. If instead we want to hide all the slave tracks there is Gang Media.

Gang None: you can see all tracks (master and slave).
Gang Channel: you can see all the masters and the first slaves of each master (not just the first slave). In this way you use the most natural method used in editing: the first audio track is always shown and "incorporates" the other channels as well.
Gang Media: you only see the masters (The result would be similar to the normal editing in CinGG but using the Master Tracks button instead of Arm/Disarm).

In all these cases, if you could also propagate the patchbay buttons (from master to slaves), the worflow would become more intuitive, fast and consistent.
PhyllisSmith

PhyllisSmith

2020-10-18 00:12

manager   ~0004259

GG clarification: it is working correctly based on the code:
In Gang None mode, all tracks are shown.
In Gang Media mode, all tracks marked as "master" are shown.
In "Gang Channels" mode, all tracks marked as "master" are shown BUT if the first track of the video/audio/subtitle track is NOT marked as a Master node, it behaves as if it were.
PhyllisSmith

PhyllisSmith

2020-10-17 18:04

manager   ~0004258

Last edited: 2020-10-17 18:13

View 2 revisions

The manual statement needs clarification which I will fix and includes bad english. Once the updated pdf is propagated to the website it will read: "in this mode, only the Master Tracks will be shown except when there is no Master video, no Master audio or no Master subtitle track, in which case for each the first track of video, audio, and subtitle will be shown."

But there is still a bug, I think. Have to ask GG yet.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
2020-10-16 11:23 IgorBeg New Issue
2020-10-17 18:04 PhyllisSmith Assigned To => PhyllisSmith
2020-10-17 18:04 PhyllisSmith Status new => acknowledged
2020-10-17 18:04 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0004258
2020-10-17 18:13 PhyllisSmith Note Edited: 0004258 View Revisions
2020-10-18 00:12 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0004259
2020-10-18 07:18 Andrea_Paz Note Added: 0004260
2020-10-18 07:57 IgorBeg Note Added: 0004261
2020-10-18 14:31 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0004262
2020-10-18 17:00 IgorBeg Note Added: 0004263
2020-10-18 17:09 IgorBeg Note Added: 0004264
2020-10-18 17:21 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0004265
2020-10-18 17:37 IgorBeg Note Added: 0004266
2020-10-18 17:56 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0004267
2020-10-18 19:16 IgorBeg Note Added: 0004268
2020-10-19 13:56 Andrea_Paz Note Added: 0004269
2020-10-19 16:12 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0004270