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IDProjectCategoryView StatusLast Update
0000558Cinelerra-GG[All Projects] Bugpublic2021-03-14 08:27
ReporterRafaMar Assigned ToPhyllisSmith  
PrioritynormalSeverityfeatureReproducibilityalways
Status confirmedResolutionopen 
Product Version 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0000558: Problem with alpha channel when using a nested or reference EDL
DescriptionThis error causes using the opacity or projector wizard problems when inserting this EDL into another project in its nested or referenced mode.
Instead of explaining the problem I am going to make a video with subtitles where you see this error.
I have made a project (EDL) to add text to a video. In this project the texts enter by fading using the fade line.
I have made another project (EDL) to add text to a video. In this project the texts are entered using the projector wizard.
View the video.
https://streamable.com/b5o8la
TagsNo tags attached.

Activities

IgorBeg

IgorBeg

2021-03-14 08:27

reporter   ~0004692

I understand you, Phyllis. It is not easy to find a right way.
Thank you!
PhyllisSmith

PhyllisSmith

2021-03-14 00:50

manager   ~0004691

I deleted the porterduff-srcover and made the suggested wording changes/additions.
As Andrea can attest, it is quite difficult to keep the documentation updated and that is why it is better to have all of the documentation in only one place in the Manual. We already have trouble keeping the Shortcuts updated since they are in 2 places and are becoming out of synch.

OK, I will work on adding a section in the chapter "Troubleshooting and Help" and will call it "Workarounds for Known Problems". So far I have 3 items to go in as follows:
1) this OpenEDL alpha problem
2) Fade/flash bug
3) clips with transitions and Motion 51 plugin
4) others?
IgorBeg

IgorBeg

2021-03-13 10:28

reporter   ~0004690

Thanks Phyllis! I read the section about the workaround. It seems good to me. You know, English/US is not my first language.
If possible I would change...
- From "... using the middle mouse button on ..." To "... using the MMB (Middle Mouse Button) on ..."
- In the sentence "Change the value of the Alpha to 0.00." I would add "The Alpha Plugin may be disabled".

I agree with RafaMar about "the one of using PorterDuff-> SrcOver I would not include".
It can be used for other reasons and in other section of the Manual.

What do you think about create a new "FAQ and Known Problems" section in the Manual?
I don't know if it is complicated and it has sense for you. So, an user, like me, may search if someone found a trick/workaround for a problem. Maybe this a question to report in Mailing List.
RafaMar

RafaMar

2021-03-13 07:48

reporter   ~0004689

Thank you very much @IgorBeg
My idea was simply to put a help button after the "EDL Strategy" buttons that would link to a short manual that explains to a user the correct way to use these options and what each of them does.
@PhyllisSmith the solution of using Alpha's effect is perfect for both situations, the one of using PorterDuff-> SrcOver I would not include, since this option sometimes causes an undesired result.
PhyllisSmith

PhyllisSmith

2021-03-12 23:32

manager   ~0004687

Last edited: 2021-03-12 23:38

View 2 revisions

@IgorBeg , please check the wording in the following (the section beginning with the word Workaround)
   https://cinelerra-gg.org/download/CinelerraGG_Manual/Nested_Clips.html#sub:nested_clips

@RafaMar , about
"doing something similar to what I did with the Batchrender Assistant? A help button opening a PDF that explains these things very abbreviated." It is a good concept but this was does not have a wizard (menu) like Batch Render does. With the advent of the HTML version of the Manual, it is easier to narrow down which section to look for workarounds. BT 0000538 is still open and possibly the "h" key will be hooked up in the future to make using the HTML lookup really easy.

@All ,
BUT we still need a fix for this error and if you carefully read the manual on the nested section, you see the following statement: "creating nested clips is a complicated internal process for CinelerraGG, especially for managing audio tracks". And I believe there is another issue with nesting sizes that was presented by @fary54 . It is BT 0000440 so that if a programmer comes along to work on this bug, it can all be addressed at the same time. Let us see if anyone responds to the other 2 bugs that need fixes and have a PayPal donation associated with them.

IgorBeg

IgorBeg

2021-03-12 09:34

reporter   ~0004686

Thanks to both, RafaMar and Phyllis. Mine is just a trick to (temporarily?) bypass the issue.

<code>RafaMar wrote:
"... with the alpha at 0 and without the need to disable the effect.."</code>
In my #4 point, I know that it works even with the Plugin enabled. I disable the Plugin because, I think, it consumes less cpu, or at least I hope. Maybe Phyllis know if it is true or not.

<code>RafaMar wrote:
"what do you think ... A help button opening a PDF that explains these things very abbreviated."</code>
Sorry, I don't like the Help button inside Plugins to link an external PDF. For me it has no sense.
It is true, there is a checkbox Help in Mask tool and Sketcher plugin but it is a different thing (... and they should be "harmonized").
I think the Manual is there for this. An User who wants to learn some things should download the Manual and use the "Find a word or phrase in the document" function to search for what He needed there. He could learn more from the Manual. If something is unclear , and it may be, there is the support from other Users in the Forum, Mailing List, and MantisBT.
I am sorry but I think so.
RafaMar

RafaMar

2021-03-11 20:26

reporter   ~0004682

The normal thing would be that by nesting the EDL, the transparency operated without problems, but as not being the case, the first solution that Igor proposes is very good, then now it is simply that people know. And in this way it is not necessary to touch the code.
I know that the ideal would be that Cinelerra did this internally and automatically, but when you know the way to solve it is also just as valid.
Phyllis, what do you think of doing something similar to what I did with the Batchrender Assistant? A help button opening a PDF that explains these things very abbreviated.
PhyllisSmith

PhyllisSmith

2021-03-11 19:50

manager   ~0004678

Yes, I will add this to the manual as a solution after having @IgorBeg review my wording to make sure I say it correctly. He is quite the expert when it comes to using nesting.
RafaMar

RafaMar

2021-03-11 18:36

reporter   ~0004676

Hi @IgorBeg, thank you very much, the trick of setting the alpha effect has worked perfectly in both cases, with the alpha at 0 and without the need to disable the effect, both the one that enters by fading and the one that enters with the projector.
Thanks to you I can continue with the tutorial on the EDL strategy with a very good solution for the alpha issue when working nested or as a reference.
The solution seems to me so good that even @PhyllisSmith could indicate this process, in the Cinelerra GG manual, when we make a clip that we want to insert as a reference or nested. And with your first solution this issue is solved.
Thank you very much for your help.
IgorBeg

IgorBeg

2021-03-11 12:47

reporter   ~0004672

In the meantime a programmer came out,... this is my workaround...

The trick for the Projector problem on the Sequence when it is used in a Master Project.
1. Open your EDL (the Sequence) with "Open EDL" by MMB (Middle Mouse Button) on the Nested Edit on the track (or as you prefer).
2. In the Sequence, insert a new Video track to the bottom of the last Video track (in your video between Video_2 and Audio_1)
3. Added the Alpha plugin (Effect) to the new Video track for all the length of the Sequence. Probably you can use another Plugin but I use that because it remember me why I am using it.
4. Change the value of the Alpha to 0.00 and Turn OFF the Alpha Plugin. Yes it is strange you turn OFF the plugin but this Video Track is a kind of fake.
5. Close EDL.
6. Now the Master Project works right.

The trick for the FadeIn/Out with autos.
7. In the Master Project, in the Video Track where you putted the Nested EDL, in Patchbay change the "Overlay Mode" from Normal to PorterDuff->SrcOver.

I know it is not the better but... better that nothing. ;-)

Please, tell me if it is clear or you needed a demo video.
Thanks!
RafaMar

RafaMar

2021-03-10 07:39

reporter   ~0004669

This is an alpha channel error when using an EDL inserted as a reference or nested.
This EDL acts as if it is set to RGB or YUV with no alpha channel and should work as RGBA or YUVA.
The problem is that I don't know how to program in C to be able to fix this, I'm sorry, that's why I'm reporting it, in case some programmer can fix it.
PhyllisSmith

PhyllisSmith

2021-03-09 22:30

manager   ~0004668

I have only run the demo one time but it is going to take some real study on my part to understand what is going on.
RafaMar

RafaMar

2021-03-09 14:40

reporter   ~0004667

Files I have used for the video example.

EDL_Files.zip (177,684 bytes)

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
2021-03-09 14:31 RafaMar New Issue
2021-03-09 14:40 RafaMar File Added: EDL_Files.zip
2021-03-09 14:40 RafaMar Note Added: 0004667
2021-03-09 22:30 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0004668
2021-03-10 07:39 RafaMar Note Added: 0004669
2021-03-11 12:47 IgorBeg Note Added: 0004672
2021-03-11 18:36 RafaMar Note Added: 0004676
2021-03-11 19:50 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0004678
2021-03-11 19:51 PhyllisSmith Assigned To => PhyllisSmith
2021-03-11 19:51 PhyllisSmith Status new => confirmed
2021-03-11 20:26 RafaMar Note Added: 0004682
2021-03-12 09:34 IgorBeg Note Added: 0004686
2021-03-12 23:32 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0004687
2021-03-12 23:38 PhyllisSmith Note Edited: 0004687 View Revisions
2021-03-13 07:48 RafaMar Note Added: 0004689
2021-03-13 10:28 IgorBeg Note Added: 0004690
2021-03-14 00:50 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0004691
2021-03-14 08:27 IgorBeg Note Added: 0004692