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IDProjectCategoryView StatusLast Update
0000002Cinelerra-GG[All Projects] Featurepublic2019-06-14 15:24
ReporterPhyllisSmithAssigned Togoodguy 
Status assignedResolutionopen 
Product Version2018-11 
Target Version2019-06Fixed in Version 
Summary0000002: Masking Enhancements and Improvements
DescriptionThis is a "wish list" of enhancements posted by users over time and some may no longer be desired and some may not be practical:

- a single control center for masks on different tracks, for example a "Mask Manager" window with enable/disable/delete options
- feather edges (feather inside, outside, both, none)
- bezier curves and shapes for masks (square, oval, free shape using bezier so can outline an object)
- add names for masks
- way to delete masks in compositor window instead of just in mask window
- copy, cut, paste masks between tracks
- ability to assign different masks in same track as 100% or 80% or ... and separate subtract and multiply differently
- draw mask outline only so can see background until ready to use it, that way it is easier to get a good orientation

Some mask criticisms that maybe could be improved:

- crosshairs of mask is too small and lacks color aggressiveness
- mask edit does not always go away
TagsHELP needed




2019-06-07 11:53

reporter   ~0001683

Like you (Phyllis: “...for the name it does not make much sense”), mask’s name should not to be keyframeable , I think. Maybe for the other users it is needed, I don’t know.

About improving the layout, I think it is very hard to add the frames for the properties/sections in Cinelerra. I have to say that it has been improved a lot compared to before; the layout is very good. Thank you for the effort.


2019-06-07 00:49

manager   ~0001678

IgorB: " Mask's name is keyframeable: is it what you wanted?" I asked about this, and yes, it is keyframeable and a good reason is because you may want one name in part of the video and another further down.

I have saved the photomontages so that GG can work on improving the layout and adding the Track name at the top.


2019-06-02 08:36

reporter   ~0001636

Thanks Sam!

And here I added another quick photomontage with the frames. (the width of the window should be increased a little)
I think It is better than the previous suggestion but I don't know if it is possible to implement in Cinelerra.



2019-06-01 13:10

manager   ~0001628

I find it absolutely important to name the operating elements or the sections. Your photomontage is great. I support this suggestion!


2019-06-01 12:52

reporter   ~0001627

Really thanks for the new month build and for all your work.

About GUI Layout, I added a photomontage. Only an idea to separate the Mask tool's properties.
(In the future maybe you can close and open the single properties like you have done in Resources->Video Effects with the arrow)

It would be better a frame around every properties with the title of the properties like in my photomontage but I think it is not possible because I do not see that in any Cinelerra's window, now. If you want, the next time, I can create another photomontage with the frame, even thought you all have always see in other OS and softwares.

I have to go and fix my father's lawnmower. ;-)



2019-05-31 14:16

manager   ~0001626

Last edited: 2019-05-31 14:55

View 3 revisions

IgorB - Thanks for testing!
- will check about mask button colors for the other themes
- will check with Olaf on the clear buttons too, because I am sure he will want to fix it himself
- expanders.txt updated to include RGBShift - good spot, it is good to keep this up to date (this will be in the builds today)
- will have to see what to do about mask name being keyframable -- I think anything that changes is subject to keyframe but for the name it does not make much sense

Also, any suggestions about where to place the "Track Name" in the GUI layout?



2019-05-31 08:46

reporter   ~0001625

Thanks! And for me it is really good. (I tried also with keyframes)

- I have noticed that also the Mask's name is keyframeable: is it what you wanted?

- Updating with radio buttons and tumbler is okay. Great! Thanks!

- About the mask number colour yellow when a mask is used:
-- SUV, Unflat, Neophyte, Cakewalk, Blue themes --> really good;
-- Pinklady, Blond-cv, Blond, Hulk themes --> so and so (or my monitor doesn't display them well);
-- Bright theme --> it shows only the first 4 radio buttons, due to the great distance between radio buttons, and no tumbler;
-- BluDot theme: not visible the radio buttons and the masks number of the masks used.

- Neophyte's clear/reset button is still the old png (or, perhaps, you want to leave that).
Maybe Olaf want to remake it using its Undo button and rotating it by 90 degree counterclockwise, like Him has done in Cakewalk theme.
Otherwise you can find what I had done in note 1579


2019-05-31 01:34

manager   ~0001624

2 things - when you change mask number with the radio buttons, it now correctly updates the values and when there is an active mask, it turns the mask number to the color yellow so it is very easy to see. A couple of keyframe related bugs were fixed too. More follows still next month.
We will be doing the builds tomorrow (May 31 for us) but if there is a major crash, we can fix that and still get the builds done if early enough.


2019-05-30 11:52

reporter   ~0001623

Maybe it is too late for the May 31 build,
but when you change mask number with the radio buttons or the tumbler, the Fade, Feather, Point,..., values are not update.
With the pulldown menu it works fine.


2019-05-30 08:23

reporter   ~0001622

Mmpfh, I mean "... under the radio button, ...".
Instead of asterisk, may be better the text number underline?
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7



2019-05-30 08:09

reporter   ~0001621

Only a word: WoW!

One thing again, and excuse me for another request, but I think it may be really useful.
Would be possible to add an asterisk (or any other simply character) on the left side of the mask number, under the checkbox, when there is at least one point in that mask?
So you can see/understand, on the fly, that there are active/draw masks there, and in which mask number, without to check the others.
I added a photomontage to explain better, I hope.
Thank you so much!



2019-05-30 03:24

manager   ~0001619

Believe it or not, after Andrea reinforced the boring-ness of having to select the mask number and IgorB suggested the radio buttons solution, GG managed to add them -- and even with the mouse wheel tumbler! A new Ubuntu 16 version is at:

I actually found a useful situation for allowing the mixed mode (at least that is what I think) so it is staying in as legal for now and as stated earlier simply avoid mixing them.


2019-05-29 21:30

manager   ~0001616

Here is a correct explanation as reviewed by GG. You might want to read the last paragraph first.

When you have multiple masks with different modes, which in the past were Subtract Alpha (default) and Multiply Alpha, and are now Fade slider bar positive (default 100) and Fade slider bar negative, a decision had to be made on what value to use. For summarizing first, it uses the maximum transparency value of the background to determine the operational results. Here is described how that works.

Definitions for understanding:
  - The area outside the mask is referred to as the background.
  - The operational result is based on the maximum transparency value of that background.
  - This is not going to be a blend anymore because it would end up blending for each negative value,
    and the result would probably not match any mask.

Case 1, Positive Fade:
   When the fade for all of the masks is positive, affecting the area inside of the mask, all of the
   background colors are at a transparency value of zero. So the largest transparency value is 0,
   and all masks are drawn with opaque backgrounds, depicted as one would expect.

Case 2, Negative Fade:
   When the program computes the background color for any number of masks that includes negative
   mask(s), it uses the largest transparency number as the determining factor for the background.
   Only 1 of the masks can be largest, and wins for the background color result.

Even though this mixing is possible, it is probably not useful even though the program can handle it anyway. This negative case mixing did not exist in the past implementation of Masking. Suggestion is to avoid using multiple masks with negative and positive simultaneously if the result is undesirable.


2019-05-29 20:45

reporter   ~0001615

Oops, Sam. Same time.
Thanks Sam!


2019-05-29 20:42

reporter   ~0001614

Thanks Andrea_paz.
I think that all the eight masks, in one track, should have only positive Fade values or only negative Fade values; not mixed mode.

About the radio buttons for quick selection I mean something like the photomontage added (sorry, I have done really quickly). It is only an idea.

Mask_8radioButtons.png (39,662 bytes)
Mask_8radioButtons.png (39,662 bytes)


2019-05-29 20:37

manager   ~0001613

It looks like it's overlapping. Seems to be an additional new feature or a small bug has crept in. ;-)


2019-05-29 20:20

updater   ~0001612

> What you see in the Compositor?
> I tried but the result is really strange. For me this option should not be possible, I think.

You are right, it's really strange. How do you say the various masks are joined (in the same alpha plane inside the tool?) and then we see in compositor the simple overlapping of the fade value of the two masks. The single masks correctly show each one its value, but the result in the compositor is an overlay. The feather slider has not this problem.


2019-05-29 19:43

reporter   ~0001611

Sorry, and thanks for your reply.
I am not speaking about design but the possibilities to use two different modes (subtract or multiply, respectively Fade positive or Fade negative) on different mask.
I try to explain better with an easy example:
1) create 4 point (a rectangle) in mask number 0 with Fade=+80 (subtract) on the left side of the compositor
2) create 4 point (a rectangle) in mask number 1 with Fade=-80 (multiply) on the right side of the compositor
What you see in the Compositor?
I tried but the result is really strange. For me this option should not be possible, I think.
Could you try, please?

About Andrea/Phyllis fast selection of the mask number: and add eight radio button, one for every mask, numbered from 0 to 7?
So I press the radio button number 3 and I can see the data (Fade, Feather, and so on of that) and work on that mask. Only one click. Of course the pulldown menu stay there to rename the number of the mask with a word.


2019-05-29 18:34

manager   ~0001609

Unfortunately I couldn't answer sooner because I'm on the road a lot right now.

I don't have a problem with the new design. I find it solved very intelligently. Whether I can set it via a drop-down menu or the slider is the same for me. With the current solution, all I need to do is move the slider from left to right and vice versa and see the results immediately. In the previous version I had to make an intermediate step via the drop down menu, that is no longer necessary. It saves one step and is, in my opinion, more user-friendly.

I don't know if I've grasped the problem correctly, what you're trying to explain, maybe you can describe your point of view in more detail why this design is disadvantageous.


2019-05-29 18:17

manager   ~0001608

Andrea: it is worse than boring to have to press the down arrow. GG started to code to use a tumbler instead but it was a whole rework of the GUI down arrow and he has to delay this until next month. I want a listbox instead where you just highlight the mask you want and if I can design a good one for him, he is willing to look at that.


2019-05-29 18:03

updater   ~0001607

Igor, I don't really understand point 3, can you explain it to me? The little I've tried seems to work for feather. Fade is confusing for me: I don't understand it.
Small request, absolutely not important:
I find it boring every time I have to press the down arrow and then select the mask to work on from the pulldown. Can I bring the mouse into the textbox and then scroll from one mask to another with the wheel? Or even better: in the compositor window, use the wheel (or the arrow buttons, or the numbers buttons) to switch between the masks?


2019-05-29 16:48

manager   ~0001606

IgorB: I have an answer for you on point 3, but I have to technically word it correctly and have GG review it first.


2019-05-29 16:44

reporter   ~0001605

Again about 3.point (note 1603) and if the things could not be changed...
What do you think if the gang fader of Fade and Feather are enabled by default instead of disabled by default?
It would be the old behaviour, I think.


2019-05-29 11:32

reporter   ~0001603

Phyllis/GG thanks a lot for your work!

Some points.
1. Neophite theme: clear/reset button images are not update. I had done them (note 1579), but maybe is Olaf updating the four icons?

2. "The fade and feather sliders have a sticky spot near zero so it is easy to stop there."
It is a very good idea.

3. About Fade -100_0_+100 values. My doubt is: is it right we may have two masks with different mode (subtract and multiply) at the same time?
Consider you have mask_0-Fade=+80 and mask_1-Fade=-80. I think (and I have tested) it does not work fine but not for a mistake. I think that the masks can not have two different mode, unfortunately, but them have to be in accord. Or, at least, as mask works now.
Please, can you make this simply test?
Of course if you use gang fader option the masks work in accord (then maybe them always have to work in accord) .
It will be different if a new plugin named Mask, like Sketcher or Tracer plugins, were created, so you can make a kind of stack with different plugins: video, color3way, mask, color3way, mask, mask, and so on.
I hope I explained myself well.

@Sam (and all)
Could you reply at my 3.point, please? I think it is really important. If you think it is better speak about in another place, for me it is okay. Thanks.


2019-05-29 02:00

manager   ~0001601

Some changes checked into GIT today. Progress is being made but this masking project will not get completed this month after all (and that includes some of the same options being included in Perspective, Tracer, etc.)

@IgorB: fix for loading of old project inverted wrong is now in. And the clear/reset buttons you provided for all of the themes along with the svg files have been checked in. They look cleaner and very consistent. Thank you for this tedious work.

A rounding addition being used previously had to be removed because now the numbers are accurate and this was causing errors.
3 more tooltips were added on boundary, markers, and focus.
When tool-tip like additions were added for Autos last September, Mask was mistakenly included but is now removed.
OpenGL debug capability was corrected to help diagnose future problems.


2019-05-28 14:43

manager   ~0001600

Confirmed inverted mask problem and GG is working on that now.
The reason for the Marker and Boundary options is because they will become more useful in the future when you can see all masks at once.


2019-05-28 12:50

reporter   ~0001599

Loading an old project, now the mask mode is inverted.
It was "subtract alpha" mode and the Value=90. Now Fade= -89 and in the Compositor the mask is inverted (like it was "multiply alpha").

IMHO Marker and Boundary options (checkbox and text) no needed. Why?:
- only one mask with Marker and Boundary is displayed at a time (if more masks are there) and I have to see the Marker and the Boundary to move/change them.
- when I exit from Mask mode they are always disabled.

Other things but for me it is too late.


2019-05-27 20:47

manager   ~0001598

Quick test: It seems to be working fine. OpenGL works exactly as expected. Thx :-)


2019-05-27 19:53

manager   ~0001597

OpenGL plus other Masking changes just checked into GIT. I will have to describe them better in an email. All is not yet in.
IgorB: Ubuntu 16 build at:


2019-05-24 09:11

reporter   ~0001593

I put here the photomontage with the difference between Kdenlive's RGB-parade and Cinelerra's Vectorscope.
Surely I had to open a new ticket. Sorry.



2019-05-24 08:07

reporter   ~0001592

I continue to write here for the Clear buttons then, excuse me, Phyllis and Sam.
In compressed file you can find the SVG files. Only the Blue-Dot and Blond-Cv have the background raster image then you can not enlarge with scaling. Thanks.

Sam wrote:
"...because the vector scopes in Cin are still insufficient. It's all very pixelated and a very detailed display is currently not possible."
I agree with you Sam. You and me had spoken about time ago.

Cin-GG_themes_Clear_btns_source_SVG.tar.gz (18,766 bytes)


2019-05-23 16:21

manager   ~0001587

"Sooner or later, GG is planning on scaling all of the windows and icons so that they show correctly on different monitors automatically."

I would also be very happy if that were possible in the future. With this step I would suggest to implement subpixel display. I am still doing my color correction with commercial solutions because the vector scopes in Cin are still insufficient. It's all very pixelated and a very detailed display is currently not possible.


2019-05-22 16:55

manager   ~0001586

He plans on using your Clear buttons for sure. The SVG is always nice to have and here is why -- bigger monitors with 8K are in the future and there is already a BT to implement that. Sooner or later, GG is planning on scaling all of the windows and icons so that they show correctly on different monitors automatically. However, because GG wants to work on code and not pictures, if he gets the PNGs done, he lazes out. Your choice.

BTW - just an update, he is still struggling with OpenGL.


2019-05-22 16:19

reporter   ~0001585

To close the circle about the Clear buttons, here, in the compressed file, the PNGs for Blond-cv and Blue-dot.
Thanks. If you will use them, I will do the single SVG file for every button and I will send to you.
Thanks again.

Cin-GG_themes_BlondCv-BlueDot_Clear_btns.tar.gz (3,879 bytes)


2019-05-21 20:23

reporter   ~0001584

Excuse me. Probably I am wrong to write here.
However I have done the Clear buttons for PinkLady, Hulk, Bright (Brrr!!!), Blue and Blond themes. Clear buttons for Blond-cv and Blue_Dot themes next time, I think (also if I don't know how many users use them).
I added compressed file.

Cin-GG_themes_PinkLady-Hulk-Bright-Blue-Blond_Clear_btns.tar.gz (6,066 bytes)


2019-05-21 09:49

updater   ~0001583

The way I see it, we can close the ticket. My other requests and those of Sam (IMO) do not concern the CinGG mask tool, but another real rotoscoping tool. So it is right to open a new ticket.
By "cloning" a mask in the same track, I meant the content of the mask, that is, just a rotoscoping (how to multiply a few stunts to create an entire army). So there is no need to implement it in the CinGG mask.


2019-05-20 16:50

manager   ~0001582

Work on Masking improvement continues -- gg has very little knowledge of programming OpenGL so has to figure that out and it is time-consuming to learn so much. He has some more features added but only in software instead of also OpenGL.

@IgorB: thank you for the Clear icons. He will put that in and I do not know yet about the Mode icon as he thinks he does not need that anymore. He has made more GUI changes and I am not sure what and do not want to disturb.
- The Fade and Feather sliders will be made the same size per your recommendation.
- Your buttons for the Load window are so much better than the original hand-drawn ones -- especially the Refresh and Display Icons. I am still hoping that an enthusiast computer student will eventually like to make a project out of fixing some of the icons and replacing some.

@Andrea: implementing "Power Windows" looks like another big programming task -- gg right now was just hoping to get this MantisBT number 2 closed (seeing how it was the second one added!). I think Sam's note 1578 concerns the same area for a future improvement. If neither of these get included by the time GG is done with Masking, I will open a new ticket specifically for these feature requests. After all, it is all about Color!
- He is working on fixing the Feather jagged-and-incorrect with OpenGL which you confirmed was present from the beginning.
 - "Clone a mask on the same track" - maybe he will be adding this as I have reminded him to include it.
 - "input windows where I can see and enter the angle in degrees and the percentage of scaling" - I asked about this but I did not get a clear answer -- something like "it does not keep track of the original mask once it rescales.
- "a minimal crosshair for the centre of gravity of the mask" - this he will do as the numbers are calculated anyway.

@Sam: plan is to change the Pivot/Focus point to your recommended icon but most likely in black and white instead. Rules/Guidelines for icons would be really nice to have and follow. Maybe someday we can redo to "make it so".

Also, just want to emphasize that a bunch of people put a lot of work into all of the themes, and we want to make sure to retain them and not have the icons get too far off so that they are not visible, even in Hulk and Pink Lady.


2019-05-20 09:14

reporter   ~0001579

I have created the two buttons for the three most used (I think) themes: SUV, Unflat and Neophyte. The buttons' size is 22x20 pixels, for the reasons I wrote previously.
The buttons, in normal state, are not raised/highlight but flat to avoid to "weigh down" the graphics.
In the compressed file you can find all the PNGs for these buttons.
You don't find the source SVG file because I don't know if you will use the PNGs buttons I have created and then I don't want to spend my time in clean/purge the SVG file for nothing.

If you will not use my buttons I can understand. Thanks for all your work.

Link to the compressed file at:

Link to the preview/demo at:
- SUV -->
- Unflat -->
- Neophyte -->


2019-05-19 00:10

manager   ~0001578

Thanks for the correction.

I noticed one more thing about masks. DaVinci Resolve and also other professional NLE's often use masks to create certain areas of the video a color correction or color change. Let's take for example a car commercial. The car rims are made lighter, but the rest of the video remains unchanged. Other areas of the car are darkened or a slight contrast is added. This means that several masks are used to narrow down these areas of the video and apply the color correction effects to these masks.

Example 1:
Video track 1 first mask -> effect 3 Colors more blue in shadow.
Video track 1 second mask -> Contrast effect -> Increase contrast
Video track 1 third mask -> More color saturation

Example 2:
Video track 1 first mask -> effect 3 Colors more blue in shadow.
Video track 2 same video as in track 1 and first mask -> effect Contrast -> increase contrast
Video track 3 Same video as in track 1 first mask -> More color saturation

The difference from example 2 to example 1 is that in example 1 I only need one video track and apply all effects to the different masks on this one video track. This would probably save a lot of processing power. It would also be more user-friendly because I only have to edit one video track and not the same video spread across multiple tracks.

I have no idea if it would work to assign masks to certain effects.

I just wanted to stimulate this idea because I find this feature very useful. Maybe a mask assignment to effects can be realized in the medium term and current programming can be prepared for it.


2019-05-18 14:13

manager   ~0001576

The fix for the rotation using bezier curves was just checked into GIT. No other masking changes as gg is still working and it may be a few more days but he tends to want to get small bugs fixed right away.


2019-05-18 02:28

manager   ~0001575

The new rotation feature causes an error when rotating a mask that the mask changes unintentionally when using bezier curves. These adjustment bars do not move when rotating. I made a video about that.


2019-05-17 18:58

manager   ~0001574

Last edited: 2019-05-17 23:40

View 2 revisions

Sam--> I agree too.

I was referring to the mixing of functionalities, I should have clarified that better in my answer. I agree that the buttons should have a unique function. But my concerns relate to the "Shift + Delete" button. I would prefer to have a unique button. This button can also have a different symbol. It does not have to be the reset symbol. It can also be a symbol with a crossed out mask.

If you don't like the word "rules", we can also use the word guidelines. The guidelines do exist with many software vendors. Apple and Microsoft have such guidelines and even many open source projects have such guidelines. I think it wouldn't be bad to stick to certain guidelines. By these guidelines we bring more clarity into the design of Cinelerra. Here is an example , which KDE and Gnome Apps also recommend. Check out the Desktop Apps category and you'll find what I meant.

I just wanted to say that if we are going to create new icons, it would be good to make them consistent. Yes, my proxy icon has strange dimensions. I had to stick to the measurements that already existed so that all the other themes didn't have to be reworked. Even then I was dissatisfied with it. That's why my proposal and wish are to adhere to already existing guideline recommendations, so that a uniform and better design can finally be achieved.

By the way, I welcome every contribution made to Cinelerra and look forward to your ideas for the icons.

Update: I forgot to mention that when I created the proxy icon I used the FFmpeg as a template.



2019-05-17 17:27

reporter   ~0001572

" I don't like the "Shift + Delete" option at all"
It sounds strange to me. In your 1537 note you wrote:
IgorBeg --> 7) The "Shift+key delete" to delete All_Mask or delete All_Point had more sense to me, against the new button on the right side of the Delete buttons. It is better no mix the functionality of a button like Clear button: the user may be confuse.
Sam--> I agree too.

Regards to square button, there is not a rule. There are still rectangular button like your Proxy button (32x22px). Anyway the height of all the generic buttons now is 20 pixels; and the height of the sliders is 20 pixels, and the cursor of the sliders is 20 pixels. Then I will do the two buttons, Mask and Clear, 24x20 pixels size for my use and if you (Sam, developers and users) want, I share with you.
Time ago I had done some buttons, for the SUV theme, to improve their appearance but nobody was interested. So, it doesn't matter again.
In added file you can see the buttons for the Load window.



2019-05-17 16:19

manager   ~0001568

To Igor's answer:

1: I absolutely agree.

2: I agree with that.

3: I agree with you about the blue colour, only white/black will probably be better.

4: There should be uniform design rules as with all other programs. I don't think much of keeping different lengths for buttons like 23x21. Especially with square buttons the rule applies. 12x12, 24x24, 36x36, 48x48 etc. For this reason I'm currently reworking my Cinfinity Icon and implemented the uniform design rule for square buttons. I hope that we could finally introduce a few design rules in order to achieve a minimum standard in software design in the long run.

5: I don't like the "Shift + Delete" option at all. There should be a button for it and that is given by the new button. Cinelerra is the only program that has a different effect with Shift on a button. I would stick to the known standards to make Cinelerra more comfortable for the users. For the "Shift + Delete" option I need an explanation again and for the "delete all masks" button I don't need it. The current operation is more user-friendly.


2019-05-17 08:59

reporter   ~0001564

Thanks for the build. And I add my considerations.

1- Alignment of the texts and fileds is very, very good! Clean and Professional!

2- Feather's slider is a bit larger than Fade's slider. Is it possible to make them with the same width?

3- Sam's suggestion about Pivot: maybe it is better to make the pivot like the arrow of the mouse pointer is, full white with the black frame. Then the pivot would become a white circle (with the hole like Sam's pivot.png) with the black frame. Not colour blu or red. I added a png file (size to verify)

4- The new buttons size is 24x24 px. It is not good, for me, because the height of the slider, hslider, and the genericButton is 20 or 22 pixels. In my sketch the height was 21px.
So, if you have not against, I can do the complete series of buttons, Mask and Clear, for the 3 more used themes: SUV, Unflat and Neophyte.
I need more time, about 4-5 days in my spare times. If you needed the final size of these buttons I can say you: 23x21 (width x height).
Then you can decide if it is good to replace or not.

5- Finally, and again (sorry), I would delete the Clear button to "Delete all mask" and would replace with the old "Shift+keyDelete".




2019-05-17 08:16

updater   ~0001563

Test are OK for me. Thanks, thanks, thanks, ... :-)
I like the Sam's pivot blue.
Other requests for improvement:
- Can I have input windows where I can see and enter the angle in degrees and the percentage of scaling? This would be convenient to use in conjunction with keyframes. (Polar coordinates are more comfortable to use than Cartesian coordinates.)
- Is it possible to have a minimal crosshair for the centre of gravity of the mask? In this way we could always center the rotation with the highest precision of focus positioning, if necessary. ((for example, it is difficult to find the exact center of a circle by moving the mouse without references)


2019-05-16 23:25

manager   ~0001561

The idea of enlarging the blue pointer with a higher resolution is solved very well.
However, I would make this blue pointer two-colored. In a video with a lot of blue color the pointer will almost disappear. I would make this pointer one to two pixels white at the edge. In addition, I would not display this pivot as a cross, but as a circle, because it is a circular movement around this point. I made a photomonate to show what I mean by that.

1.) On a blue background you can still see the round circle with a white border and a white dot in the middle of the circle.
2.) The second picture shows it on a red background.
3.) The third picture shows it in an enlarged view.

That new crosshair is very well visible for me.

pivot.png (1,326 bytes)
pivot.png (1,326 bytes)
pivot_blue_bg.png (325,457 bytes)
pivot_red_bg.png (325,866 bytes)
Pivot.svg (3,631 bytes)


2019-05-16 22:13

manager   ~0001560

There is more being added yet, but I forgot to mention.
- the crash was fixed too when no armed track and bring up masks
- I was supposed to test keyframe spanning and did not do that yet, but it was not changed so should still work

How to use Focus Point - to set, move cursor in the compositor where you want it, then hold shift+click with the middle mouse button and it records that point. BE AWARE that the next time you shift+click the middle mouse button, it deactivates the Focus checkbox. Both Rotate and Scale use the Focus Point for movement.

2 questions:
  ? does the Focus point look OK as far as size and color (size is based on resolution) ?
  ? original BT has "crosshair of mask is too small and lacks color aggressiveness" -- do you recommend changes for that ?

Plus - it is still gg's intent to also put rotate/scale in other places such as Perspective/Tracer/Sketcher is he can.


2019-05-16 21:53

manager   ~0001559

I was so excited about the new design that I overlooked below that you had already integrated my suggestion. You are great!


2019-05-16 21:49

manager   ~0001558

Wow, you guys were faster with the buttons than me. Thank you so much for your effort. The new window looks so great! Simply by better arrangement of the buttons everything looks so clear and concise! You become designers :-)
That's what I meant originally, Cinelerra only needs a few design corrections to make it look more modern and attractive, that's what you proved with the new mask window.

Thanks a lot! Great work!

I still have a small improvement suggestion. The X and Y coordinates have to be entered manually so that the blue pointer turns. I would have a small addition to it, so that determine this point goes faster. By pressing the middle mouse button, the X and Y coordinates of the current mouse position are adopted and entered into the X and Y fields of the pivot point. This makes it more intuitive to work with.


2019-05-16 21:22

manager   ~0001557

Ready for "phase 2" of mask testing - mostly cosmetic + focus. There is an ubuntu16 build at (since Igor has to check his buttons; but he is going to be making more changes in the next couple of days, so did not create a Mint18 build) :

- a focus / centroid / pivot point is recorded and can be changed for use with Rotate and Scale around that point
- use Igor's modified Mode and Clear buttons (and the same Clear button is used for the 16 plugins too) + changes color
- added a "sticky"point at 0 on the fader so it is obvious when you get to 0 and you don't have to keep jiggling until get 0
- changed GUI layout to get closer to Igor suggestions, for example put X and Y in a column instead of a row
- tooltip for Mode changed to subtract/multiple alpha but gg thinks this is technically incorrect
- clear button removed from "Point" (Mask stays)
- clear button added to Feather

 - "Only under X11-OpenGL this strange feathering appears" - pretty ugly and GG had looked into this and says it is because OpenGL is using tesselate to do this which was a bad idea. I put it down as something they may have to be fixed someday, but for now there is an easy workaround.

@Sam - I have an idea about doing GUI changes, but do not think currently that a non-programmer could do this. Actually what you and Igor have provided is most helpful. The problem is he has to pretty much create the GUI changes BEFORE he can add new features so it impossible to have you/Igor design the GUI when he does not even know what he is going to be adding at the time.


2019-05-16 16:08

manager   ~0001555

Thanks for the information.


2019-05-16 15:21

updater   ~0001554

We already talked about this in the messages on Tracer plugin ( and following). Sorry to always insist on these thoughts, I'm very interested in the subject. The DaVinci tool works as you can see in the video, because it creates a matte on the alpha channel. On this we can operate as we want, with the Color Correction for example, and then in compositor we see the result of the fusion between matte and video. Instead, the Cinelerra mask tool creates a selection mask, i.e. a hole in the track, without the possibility of operating on it. This is why it is not possible to clone a mask in the same or in other tracks (a hole has no data inside it), and for this reason it is not possible to create unclosed curves until to the end (a hole must be closed by force). Blu Banana also behaves in this way, unlike all the other HSL Qualifiers who create a real matte. And in fact even Blue Banana does everything within itself, we aren't able to intervene with other external plugins. You have to wait for its output and then apply something else. And so is the Chroma Key. No one creates a matte in an independent channel, just selection masks. I tried to use Reroute plugin to export the selection mask to a new track, but it doesn't work because it is an internal selection mask of the tool/plugin you are using and not a real matte in the alpha channel. See also the problem posted by StupidMan:
I think it's a limitation of Cinelerra's compositing engine. I'm sure of this difference in behavior: the manipulation of the alpha channel is explained in all the books I've read. But if the cause is Cin's compositing engine and if it can be solved, I have absolutely no competence to say it. Kdenlive has very crude alpha manipulation tools, but he does.


2019-05-16 13:50

manager   ~0001553

Thank you for pointing that out. I wanted to report this so that other users would know that this effect could be disabled. Maybe it would be good to mention it in the documentation.


2019-05-16 13:48

manager   ~0001552

I also noticed a very important point, which we masks tool does not master. Please have a look at this video:

In this video he limits the range/area used for the vectorscopes to make the exact color match. If I have only one video track, and want to use the mask for the color correction, then the mask does not create a border or a black background. It would be very useful if this could be extended to use it as in this video. Currently, the mask tool has no effect on the videoscope, which is unfavorable for color correction.


2019-05-16 07:09

updater   ~0001550

I confirm the problem with X11-OpenGL. It was present from the beginning, see the following video (13:35 - 13:55)


2019-05-16 00:41

manager   ~0001546

Here are the pictures for illustration:

OpenGL-Feather.jpg (117,374 bytes)
OpenGL-Feather.jpg (117,374 bytes)
X11-Feather.jpg (120,728 bytes)
X11-Feather.jpg (120,728 bytes)


2019-05-16 00:26

manager   ~0001545

Last edited: 2019-05-16 00:34

View 2 revisions

I figured out how to set the Feather transition the way I wanted it to be. All I have to do is activate "Apply mask before plugin" and the feather will be displayed without any zigzags. Activating this option makes the transition line absolutely straight and smooth.
Update: This zigzag transition is caused by the OpenGL. By deactivating the OpenGL masking the jagged feather disappears completely. Under X11 this strange representation of the feather is not displayed at all. Only under X11-OpenGL this strange feathering appears.



2019-05-15 17:51

manager   ~0001543

Thanks for the files.

I like the arrangement of the buttons in your example. Looks better.


2019-05-15 17:37

reporter   ~0001542

Thanks at all.
I still have to solve my problems with vaapi and the desktop computers offline and then, if you are not against, I could give you the svg files where you can find the base buttons I have done quickly. If you may complete the buttons I thank you. The size in svg is right, for me. The hslider icon size is 19x20 pixels. I added a tar file for you with the basic svg. Let me know if it can help. Thanks!

For the Fade slider would be better move the Mode button on the left side of the slider and put a Clear button on the right side of the slider. Clear button will move the slider on zero position (in center of the slider). I added another photomontage. What do you think about?

Excuse me if I still haven't reply to your message in mailing-list but I have read. Thank you!

You all run too fast for me. Have you a clone body/mind machine?

Cinelerra_maskMode-and-Clear_btns.tar.gz (4,906 bytes)


2019-05-15 16:40

manager   ~0001541

Unfortunately I didn't know the exact dimensions of the buttons, so I only sent you the SVG file. I can create the finished PNG images for the "Mode" and "Reset" button based on the suggestions. Today I won't be able to do that anymore, but tomorrow I will be finished with it.

I would love to change the design of the GUI, what do I have to learn? For example, I see that the Set Format window the input fields are all nicely aligned, but in the Mask window the input fields are not aligned. To align the buttons, what would I have to program? Is the programming effort particularly high? I would make the changes step by step, window by window, if I knew where to make the improvements.


2019-05-15 16:28

manager   ~0001540

Thanks for testing and the feedback -- it is very helpful
1) crash has been fixed here locally when no track is armed
2) current fader working is meant to sort of represent percentage 100% in the positive direction and then in the negative
3) size matters concerning the mode and the clear buttons; see number 5 below
4) clear button is probably going to stay the same; the problem we did have with the clear button is 2 fold:
     1 - the icon Sam supplied was perfect BUT for the plugins, it needed a box around it and gg had to inkscape that and had a lot of trouble getting the size correct.
     2 - the plugins clear button, as Igor pointed out, needed 3 states: up, down, hi and maybe 2 more
5) we DESPERATELY need a good looking Mode button with all 3-5 states. GG spent 1 1/2 hours just to get what is currently there and finally after much time wasted with no program code generated to add features, he just left it in this "ugly" state. Please someone provide a good looking 1 with ALL the states. I like Igor's but it is very important to realize that the current mode button switches from showing "foreground dominant" to "background dominant" -- the same way the mask shows in the compositor! - this is a cool component that gg wishes to be represented in the icon, that is "which picture has a hole in it".
6) the tooltip hint on the mode button will be changed to better describe its usage -- gg says "subtract/multiply alpha" is technically incorrect though but it will be changed somehow.
7) really? I kind of liked this but if it is confusing, it is easy to remove later
    also though, per Igor's png, a Clear button will be added to the Feather
8) aligning X and Y in a column as shown by Igor will be done
9) see number 4 above
10) discussed the rotation point coordinate this morning and gg is going to take a stab at that

Still waiting for a programmer GUI designer to fix up old dated GUIs and improve them to the "Set Format" standard -- this would really improve the look of Cinelerra. GG has always hated working on the "look" and you can see how "ugly" his buttons are !! Will have to continue to wait for a volunteer but you would think someone would enjoy doing that.


2019-05-15 14:53

manager   ~0001539

In the new version, the feder creates a zigzag transition. Before, the transition was absolutely straight. I would appreciate it if I could decide for myself whether the transition is soft and straight or jagged.


2019-05-15 14:19

updater   ~0001538

10) As Sam said about the tracer plugin, you should make the rotation pivot fixed (with a click?) to increase the accuracy and reproducibility of the operation. Better if with a viewfinder or similar. To change pivot just a new click of the mouse in a different position.


2019-05-15 13:29

manager   ~0001537

Last edited: 2019-05-15 13:30

View 2 revisions

1) If I click on mask icon (F3) when no track is armed then Cin exit and a dump file is created. (dump file added)
I confirm.

2) Fade slider value should goes from 0 to 100 (now from -100 to +100) otherwise the mode button has no more sense, I think.
I think the present solution is better. In the middle, the slider is value neutral at zero. Rightmost +100 and leftmost -100.

3) The new two buttons, now are different size (maskModeBtn= 27x18px; clearBtn= 22x16px): it is not good to see (design/layout).
I absolutely agree with you. Unaligned buttons and different sizes make the surface look chaotic. It creates optical sensory confusion, the already complicated operation. By arranging the buttons and controls you create an unconscious feeling of professionalism. The best example for a good arrangement of the buttons is the "Set Format" window. It shows that the arrangement of the buttons is possible and therefore it looks much better. It's one of the few windows in Cinelerra that gives the impression of not being from the early days of software programs.

4) The Clear button is very similar to Undo button: may be add a little dot under the arrow can help, I think.
In Premiere and also in DaVinici Resolve the buttons look the same. I wanted to give users a familiar environment so that they could use Cinelerra more easily.

5) The new Mode button is not good for a professional program like Cinelerra, I think. I added a quickly photomontage for that button.
I agree with you here as well. I did not create this button. There are better ways to display this button. I like your solution better.

6) The Mode button hint should be "subtract/multiply alpha", not generic "mode".
I agree.

7) The "Shift+key delete" to delete All_Mask or delete All_Point had more sense to me, against the new button on the right side of the Delete buttons. It is better no mix the functionality of a button like Clear button: the user may be confuse.
I agree too.

8) It would be better to align vertically the value fields of Point, X, Y. Added photomontage.
Your solution looks much better!

9.) Good point.

10.) The coordinates X and Y of the rotation point are still not displayed anywhere. If I rotate an object (mask) and want to apply this rotation point to another mask, I always have to estimate where I rotated the object before. Because I rotate the mask around the mouse pointer and don't know what the X and Y coordinates are. I would like the rotation point to be displayed and I can freeze this point. The mouse operation is ingenious, but this feature is missing to make it complete.

Set-Format.jpg (50,487 bytes)
Set-Format.jpg (50,487 bytes)


2019-05-15 12:59

reporter   ~0001536

Mmh, I known, I have missed an other point.
9) When the mouse pointer is over the Clear button (in the plugins), its state doesn't change, then you can not understand well if the mouse pointer is over or not.


2019-05-15 12:54

reporter   ~0001535

Thanks for the ub16 build. Really good.

I noticed...
1) If I click on mask icon (F3) when no track is armed then Cin exit and a dump file is created. (dump file added)
2) Fade slider value should goes from 0 to 100 (now from -100 to +100) otherwise the mode button has no more sense, I think.
3) The new two buttons, now are different size (maskModeBtn= 27x18px; clearBtn= 22x16px): it is not good to see (design/layout).
4) The Clear button is very similar to Undo button: may be add a little dot under the arrow can help, I think.
5) The new Mode button is not good for a professional program like Cinelerra, I think. I added a quickly photomontage for that button.
6) The Mode button hint should be "subtract/multiply alpha", not generic "mode".
7) The "Shift+key delete" to delete All_Mask or delete All_Point had more sense to me, against the new button on the right side of the Delete buttons. It is better no mix the functionality of a button like Clear button: the user may be confuse.
8) It would be better to align vertically the value fields of Point, X, Y. Added photomontage.

I hope I missed nothing. Sorry for the fast ugly english. ;-)

the size of the Clear and MaskMode buttons in my photomontage is 22x20 pixels (23x21with the black frame).
Sam and Phyllis/gg, I know that you have done the icons/buttons very quickly, in so little time.

cinelerra_2277_20190514.dmp.tar.gz (19,013 bytes)


2019-05-15 07:48

updater   ~0001532

My fast test are OK. Thank you very much.


2019-05-14 21:56

manager   ~0001529

Note the icon that Sam contributed for Clear on the right hand side of the top line. This clear button was also substituted in the 16 plugins from the "user contributor" who cleverly added the Clear capability last month


2019-05-14 21:52

manager   ~0001528

Some changes to Masks has been checked into the GIT repository to include the following:
 - rotate the masks around a Pivot Point which will be the compositor cursor position (middle wheel)
 - scale to resize the masks (shift+middle wheel)
 - instead of subtract and multiple (which was clumsy in meaning) there is now an icon toggle for negative or positive along with a Fade slider bar and toggle
 - names for masks instead of just 1 through 7
 - Feather is a logical function instead of a mathematical function so should be faster
 - the mask engine was reworked and lots of cleanup was done

MORE TO COME!! Testing and feedback is welcome.

Mint18 test build at:

Ubuntu16 test build at:

mask_gui.png (28,831 bytes)
mask_gui.png (28,831 bytes)


2019-03-26 10:59

updater   ~0001258

In addition to the requests made for Mask tool, I would also like to propose the implementation of a different masking tool, the "Power Windows" of DaVinci Resolve:
It's one of the fundamental tools of secondary Color Correction and CinGG would really become similar to professional software (only Hue Curves would be missing).


2018-12-06 17:20

manager   ~0000066

Level 4 HELP needed:
A C programmer who is familiar enough with Cinelerra to basically just operate it, would be perfectly capable of implementing better masking controls and techniques. First it would require some design work for all of the needed improvements. Or perhaps programming a single additional function would help to get familiar with the current masking setup. Level 4 help is based on a level rating system with level 1 the easiest and level 5 the hardest.


2018-12-02 20:58

manager   ~0000011

I very much welcome this suggestion. +1


2018-12-02 20:54

updater   ~0000010

Add to new mask features:

- To be able to rotate the masks around a Pivot Point that we can set.
- To be able to resize the masks.
- Clone a mask on the same track.

Issue History

Date Modified Username Field Change
2018-11-26 01:18 PhyllisSmith New Issue
2018-12-02 20:54 Andrea_Paz Note Added: 0000010
2018-12-02 20:58 Sam Note Added: 0000011
2018-12-06 17:20 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0000066
2018-12-06 19:58 Sam Tag Attached: HELP needed
2018-12-06 20:02 Sam Product Version => 2018-11
2018-12-06 20:02 Sam Target Version => 2019-06
2018-12-06 23:57 Sam Category General => Bug-Issue
2018-12-07 00:00 Sam Category Bug-Issue => Bug
2018-12-08 02:02 administrator Category Bug => Feature
2019-03-26 10:59 Andrea_Paz Note Added: 0001258
2019-05-14 21:52 PhyllisSmith File Added: mask_gui.png
2019-05-14 21:52 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0001528
2019-05-14 21:56 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0001529
2019-05-15 07:48 Andrea_Paz Note Added: 0001532
2019-05-15 12:54 IgorBeg File Added: Cinelerra_MaskTool_Subtract-Multiply_multiply_20190515.png
2019-05-15 12:54 IgorBeg File Added: Cinelerra_MaskTool_Subtract-Multiply_subtract_20190515.png
2019-05-15 12:54 IgorBeg File Added: Color3Way-ClearBtn_20190515.png
2019-05-15 12:54 IgorBeg File Added: cinelerra_2277_20190514.dmp.tar.gz
2019-05-15 12:54 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001535
2019-05-15 12:59 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001536
2019-05-15 13:29 Sam File Added: Set-Format.jpg
2019-05-15 13:29 Sam Note Added: 0001537
2019-05-15 13:30 Sam Note Edited: 0001537 View Revisions
2019-05-15 14:19 Andrea_Paz Note Added: 0001538
2019-05-15 14:53 Sam Note Added: 0001539
2019-05-15 16:28 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0001540
2019-05-15 16:40 Sam Note Added: 0001541
2019-05-15 17:37 IgorBeg File Added: Cinelerra_maskMode-and-Clear_btns.tar.gz
2019-05-15 17:37 IgorBeg File Added: Cinelerra_MaskTool_Subtract-Multiply_subtract_20190515_v2.png
2019-05-15 17:37 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001542
2019-05-15 17:51 Sam Note Added: 0001543
2019-05-16 00:26 Sam Note Added: 0001545
2019-05-16 00:34 Sam Note Edited: 0001545 View Revisions
2019-05-16 00:41 Sam File Added: OpenGL-Feather.jpg
2019-05-16 00:41 Sam File Added: X11-Feather.jpg
2019-05-16 00:41 Sam Note Added: 0001546
2019-05-16 03:45 PhyllisSmith Assigned To => goodguy
2019-05-16 03:45 PhyllisSmith Status new => assigned
2019-05-16 07:09 Andrea_Paz Note Added: 0001550
2019-05-16 13:48 Sam Note Added: 0001552
2019-05-16 13:50 Sam Note Added: 0001553
2019-05-16 15:21 Andrea_Paz Note Added: 0001554
2019-05-16 16:08 Sam Note Added: 0001555
2019-05-16 21:22 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0001557
2019-05-16 21:49 Sam Note Added: 0001558
2019-05-16 21:53 Sam Note Added: 0001559
2019-05-16 22:13 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0001560
2019-05-16 23:25 Sam File Added: pivot.png
2019-05-16 23:25 Sam File Added: pivot_blue_bg.png
2019-05-16 23:25 Sam File Added: pivot_red_bg.png
2019-05-16 23:25 Sam File Added: Pivot.svg
2019-05-16 23:25 Sam Note Added: 0001561
2019-05-17 08:16 Andrea_Paz Note Added: 0001563
2019-05-17 08:59 IgorBeg File Added: Mask_pivot-CircleCross.png
2019-05-17 08:59 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001564
2019-05-17 16:19 Sam Note Added: 0001568
2019-05-17 17:27 IgorBeg File Added: some-buttons-modifiedTimeAgo.png
2019-05-17 17:27 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001572
2019-05-17 18:58 Sam Note Added: 0001574
2019-05-17 23:40 Sam Note Edited: 0001574 View Revisions
2019-05-18 02:28 Sam Note Added: 0001575
2019-05-18 14:13 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0001576
2019-05-19 00:10 Sam Note Added: 0001578
2019-05-20 09:14 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001579
2019-05-20 16:50 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0001582
2019-05-21 09:49 Andrea_Paz Note Added: 0001583
2019-05-21 20:23 IgorBeg File Added: Cin-GG_themes_PinkLady-Hulk-Bright-Blue-Blond_Clear_btns.tar.gz
2019-05-21 20:23 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001584
2019-05-22 16:19 IgorBeg File Added: Cin-GG_themes_BlondCv-BlueDot_Clear_btns.tar.gz
2019-05-22 16:19 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001585
2019-05-22 16:55 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0001586
2019-05-23 16:21 Sam Note Added: 0001587
2019-05-24 08:07 IgorBeg File Added: Cin-GG_themes_Clear_btns_source_SVG.tar.gz
2019-05-24 08:07 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001592
2019-05-24 09:11 IgorBeg File Added: Kdenlive-RGBparade_vs_CinelerraGG-Videoscope.jpg
2019-05-24 09:11 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001593
2019-05-27 19:53 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0001597
2019-05-27 20:47 Sam Note Added: 0001598
2019-05-28 12:50 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001599
2019-05-28 14:43 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0001600
2019-05-29 02:00 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0001601
2019-05-29 11:32 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001603
2019-05-29 16:44 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001605
2019-05-29 16:48 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0001606
2019-05-29 18:03 Andrea_Paz Note Added: 0001607
2019-05-29 18:17 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0001608
2019-05-29 18:34 Sam Note Added: 0001609
2019-05-29 19:43 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001611
2019-05-29 20:20 Andrea_Paz Note Added: 0001612
2019-05-29 20:37 Sam Note Added: 0001613
2019-05-29 20:42 IgorBeg File Added: Mask_8radioButtons.png
2019-05-29 20:42 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001614
2019-05-29 20:45 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001615
2019-05-29 21:30 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0001616
2019-05-30 03:24 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0001619
2019-05-30 08:09 IgorBeg File Added: Mask_8radioButtons_andMark.png
2019-05-30 08:09 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001621
2019-05-30 08:23 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001622
2019-05-30 11:52 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001623
2019-05-31 01:34 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0001624
2019-05-31 08:46 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001625
2019-05-31 14:16 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0001626
2019-05-31 14:25 PhyllisSmith Note Edited: 0001626 View Revisions
2019-05-31 14:55 PhyllisSmith Note Edited: 0001626 View Revisions
2019-06-01 12:52 IgorBeg File Added: MaskWindow-Layout_20190531-d.png
2019-06-01 12:52 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001627
2019-06-01 13:10 Sam Note Added: 0001628
2019-06-02 08:36 IgorBeg File Added: MaskWindow-Layout_20190531-e_frames.png
2019-06-02 08:36 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001636
2019-06-07 00:49 PhyllisSmith Note Added: 0001678
2019-06-07 11:53 IgorBeg Note Added: 0001683