View Issue Details
|ID||Project||Category||View Status||Date Submitted||Last Update|
|0000005||Cinelerra-GG||[All Projects] Bug||public||2018-11-27 23:56||2019-01-01 14:42|
|Priority||normal||Severity||feature||Reproducibility||have not tried|
|Target Version||Fixed in Version||2018-12|
|Summary||0000005: Need to be able to easily see the precise places on the time line where a particular source file is used and parts not used|
|Description||Paraphrasing from previous Pierre emails: "Request for a new feature that allow, on the one hand, to precisely trace and indicate in the media the origin of a particular segment of the timeline or, visually indicate the use and distribution that the timeline makes of a particular media."|
Summary usage might be a 30 minute interview where you use a few short pieces to make a shorter 10 minute section.
1) You need to see on the timeline all of the places where a particular piece of media was used.
2) And you need to be able to see which parts of that particular media are already used so you do not reuse that piece again in case you have to make the final piece another minute or 2 longer (change the duration).
"I believe that the description of the following proposals will be more complete and clear.
1- I like the idea of new functions accessible by the right mouse button (and the proposed keys) on the material highlighted (either on the timeline OR in the viewer)
2-"Find in Resources" should highlight the source media. Then, if we place this media in the viewer, the area corresponding to the analyzed segment on the timeline should be very precisely marked with a color in the cursor space and also in the image. During this procedure, the same color should also highlight the analyzed segment on the timeline.
3- Still depending on the segment analyzed on the timeline, a second new menu option should allow highlighting (of the same color) on the timeline AND on the media in the viewer, ALL timeline segments from the same media.
4- From a media in the viewer, it should be possible to select a zone (example a part of an interview) and by a menu highlight (of a color) all the segments of this zone used on the timeline AND on the viewer."
|Tags||No tags attached.|
I am overwhelmed by the elegance of the extraordinary incarnation you gave to the little idea I had and of which, to be honest, I too was a little uncertain about the possibility at the beginning... Even I wasn't anticipating how effective it could be.
The zoom of the thumbnail preview is.... great. This new feature allows me to keep my thumbnails small by default, while still being able to enlarge the thumbnail preview as much as useful.
When there are many short selection areas that intersect, it is a real challenge to click them... if the segments concerned are only a few frames (or even a single one...), if many of them coexist and their destinations intersect... it can be very difficult to manage to select them.
I have had a few occasions when Cinelerra-GG suddenly leaves while testing this new feature. For the moment I have not yet found any consistency to these infrequent crashes.
Phylis, I'm not sure I fully understand why the inversion of 0000001 and 0000003 was prevented by the nature of the code... but that's a perfectly valid reason for me.
Anyway, I find that the 3 commands: "click", "Ctrl-click" and "Shift-click" are very efficient and easy to remember.
This new feature will make users of other editing software envious....
|Great, everything is fine! No display issues anymore! Thx.|
Note to Sam: the proxy and display bugs were indeed crazy. A fix for this has been checked into the GIT repository. In case this is not obvious, when you have the proxy loaded in the timeline, the Inter-View mode with the middle mouse button on the thumbnail, in the media folder is not supposed to have white and red bars.
Note to Pierre: "Ctrl-Shift-click" also finds in the composer, the first "frame" of the sequence highlighted on the timeline EXCEPT it is now just Shift-click. A new tar:
There were good programming reasons for the 1,2,3 points set up not being modified. More information on this in a forthcoming email.
Here is a video about that and some other display bugs:
|The display of the fragments seems to work fine with a single clip. Unfortunately not with several clips in the timeline. In addition, I have activated and deactivated the proxies a few times. It is really crazy, this problem appears only occasionally.|
Sam: "In proxy mode the smaller pieces of the clip (shown in red) are not shown at all."
I can not reproduce what you show in your jpg file. The only way I can get the top and bottom bars to show all black instead of white and red are if they are not loaded on the timeline which is correct operation (the Inter-View map is only related to the timeline usage). I tested in both Proxy and Scaled Proxy mode and I get the same results if I click on either the Media file or the Proxy file. Here are the steps I use. (1) load with replace current project 1 video (2) load resources only another video (3) proxy 1/2 using Scalar (3) middle mouse button on first video - get white/red bars (4) mmb on 2nd video get correct black bars only because it is not loaded onto the timeline. But I do not see the hairline cursor position on the timeline in your jpg. I only do simple things so perhaps there is another step necessary to get the failure?
We're getting there... and it's getting very, very good.
All GG's choices are good, but I still have some suggestions...
No problems with the white bar.
All my following comments only concern the red bar....
The current "Ctrl-Shift-click" displays the entire segment concerned on the timeline and that's fine. But the composer's content is not at all relevant; he keeps the last "frame" displayed (which can be completely elsewhere in the editing)... For me it would be much more useful if we could also find in the composer, by this command, the first "frame" of the sequence highlighted on the timeline, therefore the same "frame" as the one displayed by the simplest "Ctrl-click".
With this minor adjustment... I like the display and identification options offered by GG, but I would reverse the order of priorities.
What is most useful should be the easiest to obtain (on the red bar)....
1e - The simple "click": Selection of the entire sequence concerned on the timeline and display of its first "frame" in the composer.
2nd - The "Ctrl-click": Display in the composer of the first "frame" of the sequence concerned, but only the cursor of the timeline indicates the precise location.
3rd - The "Ctrl-Shift-click": The "frame" identified by the drag scroll on the red bar is displayed in the Composer and by the cursor on the timeline.
Now, as far as preference options for thumbnails and vicons are concerned....
For your information, here is how I configured this for my 1920x1080 screens:
View thumbnail size: 70
Vicon memory size: 250
Vicon color mode: Med
I haven't tested the proxies (which I don't usually use)
I only observe a slight difference in RAM memory consumption (but I have a lot for my needs... 32GB).
Thank you very much for all this wonderful work.
AWESOME! Perfect! Thank you, it's a great feature.
The idea with the memory is ingenious.
Pierre: I think gg has the Ctrl-click responding as requested when clicking on the red bar. He moved the previous Ctrl-click to Ctrl+Shift-click because we still think this is useful for overwriting if shorten or lengthen. A new Mint 18 tar is at:
Sam: checked changes into GIT to include resized thumbnails and vicons. There are 2 new options. Check Preferences by Layout.
1) thumbnail size can be set
2) memory size can be set -- to alleviate the Pixelation, you need more memory -- so be careful because it TAKES MORE MEMORY !!!
3) color mode -- looks better
I have not figured out the proxy issue yet because I thought it was working so have to try again.
Just a small precision Phyllis, it is not 2 monitors that I use on my system for video editing, but rather 3 monitors... (1920x1080 each) side by side.
Rather than trying to describe how I arrange my Cinelerra-GG windows, the following link shows my system as I usually use it.
** I'm not used to making videos of cats, but for example images distributed on the Internet... it's a simple way to avoid potential licensing and "privacy rights" issues.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
I couldn't resist trying it right away. I am excited, many thanks for the extremely fast implementation of this suggestion.
So far it works really well and I get along well with it. It is a clear improvement compared to before. Also on 2K or even 4K monitor resolution you can see it very well.
I noticed two smaller bugs, which I wanted to report briefly.
1. The desired feature of Pierre does not work in proxy mode. In proxy mode the smaller pieces of the clip (shown in red) are not shown at all. This also has the consequence that nothing is displayed in the Media Tab with the original files. Please have a look at the screenshot. In this case it probably makes sense to use the proxy files for the representation of the position of the fragments in the timeline and to mirror this image on the original files in the media tab. Basically the mirror function of the preview video of the original files to the proxy preview video, only vice versa.
2. with the upscaled thumbnail the preview video is also scaled in the same ratio, but it is very pixelated that it is a bit hard to recognize. Obviously, the preview video is rendered with only the smallest scaling, without adopting the new scaling value from the settings. Here it would be good to render the preview video in the same ratio as the thumbnail. So that it doesn't look so extremely pixelated. I know this costs performance, but if you have a 4K monitor, you usually have stronger computers and those with weaker computers could set it to the lowest value.
In my opinion, the subsequent enlargement of the preview video with the mouse does not necessarily have to be re-rendered, then it could look a bit pixelated, but that wouldn't be a problem. Only the fixed scaling value in the settings should be applied to the preview video.
Otherwise everything works fine. Thanks a lot!
Pierre note: in response to "Finding the same "frame" (1/30 of a second) in the composer and the viewer would instantly confirm to me that I have the right segment of the timeline." GG will work on this tomorrow as he ran out of time today and we have to make sure we understand correctly.
Sam note: some changes checked into GIT that should make it easier for "Map Media Vicon Popup". SInce Pierre uses 2 monitors, it will benefit him too.
1) in Settings->Preferences, Appearance tab in the Layout section underneath where you choose cinfinity, you can change the thumbnail size. This is applicable to Media and Proxy (changes from view_popup to asset_view_popup will allow for Clips to be resized also as requested in issue # ____ soon). You MUST click OK and not Apply in the preferences window AND cinelerra will restart just like when you change themes, so do not be alarmed.
2) Plus you can resize the preview thumbnail (not the actual thumbnail) using the middle mouse wheel. You do not have to hold down CTRL ( but if you just feel like it, you can anyway!)
When you use the ctrl-wheel in a browser, only 1 image has to be resized. So it was not feasible to have the ctrl-wheel for all 200 of the media images you have in the Resources window because it has to render all of them again -- it would take too long and meanwhile you would be moving the wheel all over the place. Please let us know of this is acceptable.
What is also usual is the key combination CTRL + "+" or "-". For example, it works the same in the browser. I use it to enlarge or reduce the display size. This option in the settings to deposit, would be also a possibility.
I'm a fan of keyboard shortcuts, but it's up to you how you want to implement it, only in the preferenece or key shortcut.
|GG thinks that this can be done. His first thought would be to set a preference for the size of the thumbnail. I think this would be a good idea because if you have a 4k monitor you most likely will always want it to be bigger. I hope this would be acceptable because there are a lot of mice out there with no wheel.|
I have a little comment to make about this great feature.
I can't set anywhere how big the thumbnails are. It is always the same size no matter if 4K or FullHD monitor.
Especially with this feature I would wish for a larger thumbnail, because clicking on the small thumbnail is very tedious. Maybe it's also because of my age that my eyes are getting a little worse, no idea.
My suggestion would be as follows. If I press the Ctrl key and keep it pressed and turn the mouse wheel in the free area of the resource window, then I can change the size of the thumbnails. (This key combination also works in the internet browser) The smallest size is as current, the next size would be 1.5, 2, 2.5, 3 and 4. Thus I also change the size of the enlarged thumbnail that is activated by the mouse over in the same scale. By the enlarged thumbnail I could also better use this new feature. In my current tests I often slip and activate another thumbnail because it is too small for me. By the way, this key combination and this feature of changing the thumbnail size also works in Kdenlive, Premiere or Resolve. It would be great if we didn't only have one image size of the thumbnails, especially on 4K monitors with high resolution the current size is a pain.
I think I didn't have enough clarity in my commentary.... By "image" in this case, I meant "frame", which means 1/30 of a second in the case of the test sequences I use here.
GG's idea of identifying the entire sequence concerned on the timeline by pressing the Ctrl key is good, but it was already very recognizable by the simple timeline cursor.
However, the position where the timeline cursor is placed depends on where you click on the section of the red bar and therefore, the "frame" (1/30 of a second) displayed in the composer is not necessarily the very first of the red section, whereas it is always the first "frame" of the white section that is displayed in the viewer, regardless of where you click in the white section.
Finding the same "frame" (1/30 of a second) in the composer and the viewer would instantly confirm to me that I have the right segment of the timeline.
I'm just talking about visual comfort here, because otherwise it's clear that the timeline segment concerned is already well identified by the current process.
If you click on the same segment in the bottom red bar by that black separator line, you should already be able to see the same image in the composer and the viewer. But this gave gg a really good idea about using the Ctrl key on the bottom red bar that he added. If you click while holding down on the Ctrl key, that section is selected in the timeline so it is easily identifiable.
We tested fairly well so I do not think it needs more testing, but if so, gg made a new build at:
He also tweaked the scrolling on the red bar to allow for scrolling a little outside the window.
After testing it for a while I only have one word (french): FORMIDABLE!
I don't know if many other editing software has this function... but they will imitate it...
The only change I would perhaps like to make... Currently a click on the white bar, places the segment corresponding to its first image in the viewer, symmetrically so, I would prefer that a click in the space of the corresponding red bar, also places the segment concerned at the same beginning (first image) in the composer and on the timeline. We would then immediately see in the viewer and the composer that we are on the same image exactly.
The drag scroll on the red bar could be obtained simply by holding down the CTRL key beforehand.
That feature is AWESOME! I like it!
It takes some time to understand how it works, but when you understand it, it's just brilliant. :-)
This feature was programmed in as would "fit" and after a little more testing on a small case, was checked into the GIT repository. If modifications are needed or testing results in issues, please report back. Current name is "Map media vicon popup". To use:
0) test create a cut and a paste into media on the timeline (just so you can see what the following does)
1) turn on preview in the Resource window
2) mouse to the media that you want to see
3) click the middle mouse button on that media
4) you will see the a mini-view of the media first 5 seconds (you should hear no audio)
5) a White colored bar will be on the top of this mini-view, each segment (black/white) is a hot spot.
6) a Red colored bar will be on the bottom, clicks on it reset the main window timeline position.
7) you will see Yellow colored lines drawn from the top to the bottom showing where the media is or is not
8) click on a space on the top White colored bar, and voila! (I think that is French) that section is loaded in the viewer with In/Out [/] set to the clip of that section of the media. Tweak the edit in viewer, and then paste or overwrite to the timeline.
9) click on a space on the bottom Red colored bar and you will see where that exists on the timeline AND you can drag scroll along this color bar.
|2018-11-27 23:56||PhyllisSmith||New Issue|
|2018-12-02 17:18||administrator||Assigned To||=> administrator|
|2018-12-02 17:18||administrator||Status||new => assigned|
|2018-12-02 17:18||administrator||Assigned To||administrator => goodguy|
|2018-12-03 03:04||administrator||Note Added: 0000012|
|2018-12-03 03:15||Sam||Note Added: 0000013|
|2018-12-03 04:29||Pierre||Note Added: 0000015|
|2018-12-04 03:06||PhyllisSmith||Note Added: 0000018|
|2018-12-04 04:01||Pierre||Note Added: 0000019|
|2018-12-04 05:05||Sam||Note Added: 0000020|
|2018-12-04 12:23||PhyllisSmith||Note Added: 0000028|
|2018-12-04 12:49||Sam||Note Added: 0000030|
|2018-12-04 12:53||Sam||Note Edited: 0000030||View Revisions|
|2018-12-05 01:12||PhyllisSmith||Note Added: 0000035|
|2018-12-05 01:50||Sam||Note Added: 0000036|
|2018-12-05 01:53||Sam||Note Edited: 0000036||View Revisions|
|2018-12-05 02:29||Pierre||Note Added: 0000037|
|2018-12-05 18:13||PhyllisSmith||Note Added: 0000047|
|2018-12-05 21:07||Sam||Note Added: 0000050|
|2018-12-05 21:10||Pierre||Note Added: 0000051|
|2018-12-05 22:22||PhyllisSmith||Note Added: 0000053|
|2018-12-05 22:32||Sam||Note Added: 0000054|
|2018-12-05 22:46||Sam||Note Added: 0000057|
|2018-12-06 23:12||PhyllisSmith||Note Added: 0000069|
|2018-12-06 23:45||Sam||Note Added: 0000071|
|2018-12-06 23:57||Sam||Category||General => Bug-Issue|
|2018-12-07 00:00||Sam||Category||Bug-Issue => Bug|
|2018-12-07 03:04||Pierre||Note Added: 0000072|
|2018-12-07 03:36||PhyllisSmith||Status||assigned => resolved|
|2018-12-07 03:36||PhyllisSmith||Resolution||open => fixed|
|2018-12-07 03:36||PhyllisSmith||Fixed in Version||=> 2018-12|
|2019-01-01 14:42||Sam||Status||resolved => closed|